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Horses you never forgave and couldn’t like

Desert Orchid said:
Reminds me of the explanation of the offside rule...
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On Saturday 3 April 1971 I was on a train to Egham, sitting opposite an old man in a Chelsea pensioner's uniform. Eventually I asked him about his uniform, which is what you have to do when faced by a Chelsea pensioner. He looked very pleased to have been asked, ignored my question, and came up with one of his own: ' Do you know Jimmy Hill?'
' Not personally,' I replied, ' but I've seen his chin.'
' I'm his father.'
I was surprised, but he had ignored my question, so I ignored his answer. 'Have you had a bet on the National?' I asked.
'Yes,' he said. 'Jimmy's tipped me one. I've had a bit on Specify.' Jimmy Hill's father looked proud and I looked patronising, and forgot about him until the evening when I found a betting slip in my pocket. As I rolled it up, to see if I could at least get it into the waste-paper bin first throw, I thought of him, and of Specify, who had won at 28/1. ( From Hitting the Turf by David Ashforth )

I can remember Jimmy Hill riding a circuit of the Grand National course for BBC TV in the mid 1970s, probably accompanied by Richard Pitman.
 
I loved Dawn Run and was there for her Gold Cup which was simply the best reception I have ever experienced on a racecourse - the commentary still gives me goosebumps as I think it does many others.

What I loved about her was her big, raw-boned form (she wasn't pretty) and the fact that she wasn't the best jumper of either a hurdle or a fence. She won a Champion Hurdle, an Irish Champion, she beat Gaye Brief (when looking more of a chaser anyway) and then went chasing the following season winning her first race and then getting injured which meant she sat out the rest of the season. She came back next season, won the Durkan and then beat Buck House over 2 and a half, who was no slouch and then fell on her next start at Cheltenham. Which meant she took part in the Gold Cup (and one of the better renewals) as a virtual novice and a chancy jumper to boot due to relative inexperience as well as going up in trip. She then dropped back to 2m, beat Buck House again before her ill-fated trip to France. We will never know how good she was as there could have been plenty more to come, but I think her engine was huge. I wept buckets when my ex (who had been riding in France that day rang me to tell me the news).

She is STILL the only horse to do the double.
 
DO and Ian, read that last sentence of Jinny’s post and from now on repeat it any time you fear you are about to have what used to be called ‘impure thoughts’ about Ms Welch.
 
jinnyj said:
I loved Dawn Run and was there for her Gold Cup which was simply the best reception I have ever experienced on a racecourse - the commentary still gives me goosebumps as I think it does many others.

What I loved about her was her big, raw-boned form (she wasn't pretty) and the fact that she wasn't the best jumper of either a hurdle or a fence. She won a Champion Hurdle, an Irish Champion, she beat Gaye Brief (when looking more of a chaser anyway) and then went chasing the following season winning her first race and then getting injured which meant she sat out the rest of the season. She came back next season, won the Durkan and then beat Buck House over 2 and a half, who was no slouch and then fell on her next start at Cheltenham. Which meant she took part in the Gold Cup (and one of the better renewals) as a virtual novice and a chancy jumper to boot due to relative inexperience as well as going up in trip. She then dropped back to 2m, beat Buck House again before her ill-fated trip to France. We will never know how good she was as there could have been plenty more to come, but I think her engine was huge. I wept buckets when my ex (who had been riding in France that day rang me to tell me the news).

She is STILL the only horse to do the double.
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Her achievements were terrific especially with her crackpot owner driving Paddy Mullins mad . She was a bit fortunate I always felt though in the horses that were missing from her big wins . Burrough Hill Lad was wrong after the 1985 KG and missed her GC. Gaye Brief did his back in when jumping the last in the CH he won and was never the same horse and Sabin du Loir who trounced her in the Sun Alliance went wrong for several years before his amazing comeback for Pipe in his relatively advanced years over fences.
 
She could have done the double while juggling half a dozen carrots for all I care.

plenty of moderate horses have won a Champion Hurdle and plenty have won a Gold Cup. She just happened to do both because a) her opponents were either moderate too or didn't run their race, and b) she had the gender allowance.

If memory serves, Glencaraig Lady had no such allowance when she won the Gold Cup.

Either way, there's no way the thought of her doing the double would prevent from having impure thoughts about doing the double with Raquel.

Getting back to the offside rule explanation, I'd presumed just about everybody had by now received this at some point via social media, etc:


offside.jpg
 
Desert Orchid said:
Totally agree. I was a huge WL fan and that blinded me to the realities of that race.

But it never stopped me from being his fan and I found it more difficult to forgive myself for backing him that day rather than holding him in any lesser regard.

Nor could I say I disliked Dawn Run. What I didn't like was the way the racing media fawned all over her like she was Raquel Welch waving her knickers in the air.
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Wayward Lad's last race - winning what is now the Aintree Bowl in 1987 is still on You Tube . Graham McCourt rather than Bradley rode him as the latter rode Stearsby . Still brings a tear to the eye as the old boy having looked in a bit of trouble turning in storms up the straight jumping just as well as ever.
 
Desert Orchid said:
She could have done the double while juggling half a dozen carrots for all I care.

plenty of moderate horses have won a Champion Hurdle and plenty have won a Gold Cup. She just happened to do both because a) her opponents were either moderate too or didn't run their race, and b) she had the gender allowance.

If memory serves, Glencaraig Lady had no such allowance when she won the Gold Cup.

Either way, there's no way the thought of her doing the double would prevent from having impure thoughts about doing the double with Raquel.

Getting back to the offside rule explanation, I'd presumed just about everybody had by now received this at some point via social media, etc:


View attachment 24101
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The Mares Chase at Cheltenham ought to be named after Glencaraig Lady not Liberthine who was nowhere near as good a mare and whose best runs came at Aintree.

She beat a high class field Royal Toss, The Dikler, Crisp . L'Escargot and Spanish Steps
 
There have indeed been moderate winners of the two races but only one horse has ever won both. To expect a horse to not only win both races but be in the highest echelon at both disciplines is unreasonable.

The demands of the two races are different. One is about speed and accuracy over the minimum trip, while the other requires strength, durability and stamina as well as a turn of foot.

It’s a bit like trying to be both the best taker of penalties and frees in soccer or Gaelic football and the best place kicker in rugby. There are things in common between both activities but enough differences to make it very hard for the same person to be top class at both.
 
I think Grey makes an excellent point -we need to celebrate Dawn Run for her incredible will to win and never say die attitude.She won 8 out of her 9 races in her Champion Hurdle winning season.She started off in the Ascot Hurdle over 2.5 miles,was beaten in a handicap at Naas.Then she won the Christmas Hurdle at Kempton beating reigning champion Gaye Brief.Champion Hurdles at Leopardstown and Cheltenham followed.For years people have scoffed about Cima getting so close to her but the next two horses home were future Champion Chaser Buck House and Very Promising who was a fine 2.5 mile chaser.Desert Orchid was pulled up in that race.
Dawn Run then hacked up in the Aintree Hurdle over 2 miles 5 furlongs and finished her season by winning the Barka and French Champion Hurdle over 3 miles.
Have no doubts -she was exceptional to start winning top class hurdles in November and finish in June takes some doing.From memory she won seven top class races that season -can't remember if she ran at Punchestown. I cannot remember any horse since running in all those races never mind winning them.
The versatility involved was incredible from 2 miles at Kempton to 3 miles at Auteuil -how many horses have done that in the last 40 years.She travelled 4 times to England that season and twice to France -that takes some constitution.
One of the all time greats.
 
I think it depends how you define "great" and I'm not about to tell anyone their definition is "wrong."

Instances of me agreeing with Alice Plunkett are about as rare as sightings of Halley's Comet (or Walsworth campaigning for the Tories at an Election) but I totally agreed with her acid retort when she was criticised on TV for saying Cue Card and Winx were her all-time greatest Jumps and Flat horses.

She said: "You might think it's all down to form ratings, fine, that's your criteria, it's not mine. I care about durability, soundness and consistency - that's what makes a horse 'great' for me."

I'm a numbers man myself, and I have to see an exceptional number on my own ratings recorded at least twice.

Dawn Run never met my criteria for being defined as a "great," but that doesn't mean she can't meet other people's.

She certainly had all the qualities Luke listed.
 
Glencarraig Lady was the last top rated female chaser of her season, maybe even 2 seasons.
She would, with a little luck have been a triple Festival winner, falling at the last upsides the winner in the 1970 RSA chase when a wily old Pat Taaffe told Bobby Coonan to watch his outside while she tripped over the fourth last in the '71 Gold Cup.
Bred by Tom (Lord) Hogan's father she is from the family of Nick Rockett through his great-great grand dam Rose Ravine.
Uncle Tom has no doubt whatsoever as to which mare was better, by the way.
 
A small pivot on the discussion if I may: Did the ownership, or connections of a horse ever lessen your affection or admiration of the beast or maybe put you off it altogether?

Me: I loved Kauto Star, but would have loved him even more but for Clive Smith. Or all the Amos horses for obvious reasons.
 
an capall said:
A small pivot on the discussion if I may: Did the ownership, or connections of a horse ever lessen your affection or admiration of the beast or maybe put you off it altogether?

Me: I loved Kauto Star, but would have loved him even more but for Clive Smith. Or all the Amos horses for obvious reasons.
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Certain owners I don't/didn't like to see/listen to on telly when their horses win/won, in no particular order:

Harry Redknapp
Michael O'Leary
Rich Ricci
Trevor Hemmings
Any w@nker that wears a scarf in the owner's colours
Harry Herbert (is that his name?)

Anyone know the collective noun for w@nkers?

An ejaculation of w@nkers?
 
I dislike all racehorse owners equally - which I consider to be uncharacteristically fair of me - though, actually, in a shock, isolated, departure from routinely agreeing with Maurice about life, the universe and everything, I like Harry Redknapp.
 
I chatted to Rich Richi at Cheltenham when Gaelic Warrior didn’t win the Boodles after jumping left. It was during the race as he never watches instead relying on whoever is with him to fill him in. I thought he was great to be honest and listening to his wife interviewed the other day, thought how down to earth she was, too.
 
jinnyj said:
I chatted to Rich Richi at Cheltenham when Gaelic Warrior didn’t win the Boodles after jumping left. It was during the race as he never watches instead relying on whoever is with him to fill him in. I thought he was great to be honest and listening to his wife interviewed the other day, thought how down to earth she was, too.
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I could tell you a story about Rich going out of his way to contact a complete stranger to wish them well.
He got the bus into Dublin city centre after the DRF last year.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Certain owners I don't/didn't like to see/listen to on telly when their horses win/won, in no particular order:

Harry Redknapp
Michael O'Leary
Rich Ricci
Trevor Hemmings
Any w@nker that wears a scarf in the owner's colours
Harry Herbert (is that his name?)

Anyone know the collective noun for w@nkers?

An ejaculation of w@nkers?
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A 'wrist'?
A 'fist'?
 


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