Irish Apprentice Title

Hamm said:
it is up to the trainer to put the best, or most suitable jockeys up.
Click to expand...

It is up to the trainer to act in the best interests of the owner, but we all know that owners over-rule trainers too or say they don't want this lad riding their horse. In the case of Ballydoyle, all the horses are owned by the same lads so they make the decisions with Aidan, rather than Aidan making all the decisions himself. Slightly different set-up. I'd say Magnier is supportive because he does it himself with Tom (thank god he retired) and JP (let hope he retires soo). As long as it doesn't cost them a race he should win, then what's the problem in their eyes. He's rarely put on the really good horses and he's not bad at the pacemaking. Certainly, they have improved their tactics since the lunacy days of having the pacemakers 20 lenghts clear!!

Sheikh, I have no love of Coolmore, but having backed Alexander Pope, I watched him the whole way and you are wrong in what you say. I had a look at the race in Gowran before backing him and he was as green as grass, running around the place. Again last night, he ran green when they straightened up but kept on well up the hill. Plenty of money in win and place market for him so he was trying.
 
It is so blatant it's unreal. Heffernan moves wide for no good reason only to negate any perceived threat (Welds was never getting there) They did not come together as Smullen moves wide . The desired effect. Heffernan than ducks back towards the rail to grab a place.
 
Sheikh said:
It is so blatant it's unreal. Heffernan moves wide for no good reason only to negate any perceived threat (Welds was never getting there) They did not come together as Smullen moves wide . The desired effect. Heffernan than ducks back towards the rail to grab a place.
Click to expand...

That's a load of cobblers. He ran up behind the one in pink off the home turn and pulled him out to challenge. As he did in his previous race, he held his head to the left and didn't help Heffernan but just like his first run, when he was straightened out he galloped on well. If he hadn't pulled him out I'd have been very disappointed in Heffernan. Not sure what race you were looking at but as I said, I have no love whatsoever for the outfit, but no way on earth was Heffernan trying to be clever there.
 
Gamla Stan said:
He's an appalling rider who is only riding in Group Ones because of his father.
Click to expand...

Hang on, hasn't the lad ridden for Ireland in a young riders eventing team? You don't get to do that if you're an 'appalling rider'. An event rider has more bottle than all the flat jockeys rolled together and arguably more talent as a horseman than most of them too.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Hang on, hasn't the lad ridden for Ireland in a young riders eventing team? You don't get to do that if you're an 'appalling rider'. An event rider has more bottle than all the flat jockeys rolled together and arguably more talent as a horseman than most of them too.
Click to expand...

Means nothing if you can't judge pace in a flat race. By that argument, Zara Phillips and any other event rider would make a good jockey.

For what it's worth, I don't think Ajtebi is as bad as people make out, he suits certain horses and rode Meydan very well in the Winter. However, I'd agree I'm not sure he should be so far up the pecking order at Godolphin.
 
In that case say that he can't judge pace in a flat race, don't say things that patently are not true like he is an "appalling rider". That is something he is not.
 
Actually, I reckon his judgement of pace is spot on and is what makes him acceptable as a jockey. He looks too untidy in a finish to get the last ounce of speed on a tiring horse going flat out. More like a NH jockey in a flat charity race.
 
Last edited:
Melendez said:
Actually, I reckon his judgement of pace is spot on and is what makes him acceptable as a jockey. He looks too untidy in a finish to get the last ounce of speed on a tiring horse going flat out. More like a NH jockey in a flat charity race.
Click to expand...

Agreed and I guess that is why he gets to ride plenty of front runners.
 
Judging pace is more than just riding front runners. It's very well being able to judge how fast you are going if infront but you need to be able to judge how fast the leaders are going if you're at the back of the pack too.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Judging pace is more than just riding front runners. It's very well being able to judge how fast you are going if infront but you need to be able to judge how fast the leaders are going if you're at the back of the pack too.
Click to expand...

You have listed one example Gamla, for feck sake he is an apprentice he is bound to make some mistakes. You say he should not be getting the rides he is getting simply because who he is, which is fair enough, but equally he is open to more hole picking for the very same reason. He is more than competent in my opinion without being spectacularly good. Training will be his game.
 
He's in the same boat as Patrick Mullins. He's not the most stylish and as a result he can look poor when trying to squeeze through gaps, or in a finish. But I wouldn't mind being on a Mullins or O'Brien ridden front runner. Aidan O'Brien and Willie Mullins were excellent bumper jockeys for one reason alone, they used their brains. Aidan was stylish enough but the other amatuers in the yard at the time, Ger Ryan and Barry Cash, were the exact same. Ride them near the front and kick on. As long as you can steer you should be ok. Even Barry Connell is at his best in front. He's not a bad judge of pace but coming from behind he is not very stylish at all.
 
Last edited:
Gamla, you're talking rubbish and backing yourself into a corner. He isn't that bad a jockey, he just happens to be the son of Europe's top trainer. If he was my son i'd try to get him rides but if he was rubbish I have no doubt that Magnier would have told O'Brien. He's hardly got a reputation for being soft.
 
I've no disputes that I'm sure he's competent enough to ride Ballydoyle third strings round Tipperary but when he's being stuck on favourites in big handicaps etc. and on very good horses in group races then you have to ask questions given the other jockeys available.

To suggest because he was a good event rider he's a good jockey is just complete nonsense.
 
So is saying he is an appalling race rider, which he clearly isn't. He's riding winners for other trainers as people have pointed out so they are clearly happy to use him. Weight will catch up with him but he is definitely better than Levey who was pretty poor at pacemaking duties.
 
Cantoris said:
That's a load of cobblers. He ran up behind the one in pink off the home turn and pulled him out to challenge. As he did in his previous race, he held his head to the left and didn't help Heffernan but just like his first run, when he was straightened out he galloped on well. If he hadn't pulled him out I'd have been very disappointed in Heffernan. Not sure what race you were looking at but as I said, I have no love whatsoever for the outfit, but no way on earth was Heffernan trying to be clever there.
Click to expand...

You need to clean your screen or new binoculars.
 
Front runner who won handicap at Naas in June and ran well when runner-up at Fairyhouse and Tipperary since. Overdid forcing tactics last time but well drawn and competent claimer on board now.
Click to expand...

This is the Timeform comment for Anam Chara, to be ridden tomorrow by young Joseph.
 
Gamla Stan said:
To suggest because he was a good event rider he's a good jockey is just complete nonsense.
Click to expand...

Whoever said that? I certainly didn't. I took issue with your nonsense comments about him being (and I quote) an "appalling rider". Which he isn't, not with any stretch of the imagination.
 
Just on the Event riders and Jockeys subject... if I dare.

Does anyone else remember a Grand National feature where the jocks took on the event riders over the National fences and then over a cross country course? If memory serves me right the event riders rode Aintree really well (apart from one poor horse that was fatally injured?) and the jockeys struggled with the cross country course. In fact they were pretty terrified when they were doing it and one of the jocks went an absolute pearler on a downhill obstacle.
I actually think with regards to timing and judge of pace when riding the event riders are a tad better. They have to be if you think about it as they ride to specific timings. Going too slow and tot up penalties, too fast and they can balls it up. If you round up all the skills up that either set of riders use then of course three day event comes out on top but as for race riding then obviously the jocks do.

Horses for courses.....:whistle:

As for the subject matter, he's 17 and learning. If in another ten years he is the same then I might have a wee pop at him myself but he's still a kid and I think to have a go at him at this time in his life is a tad harsh if I'm being honest. There is no way Magnier & Co would be putting him up if he was a total loss, they wouldn't be that daft regardless of the lads connections surely?
 
Last edited:
On the Ajtebi score, the 6.30 Epsom was a total car crash. One of the worst rides I've seen in a long time.
 
Timing, judging of pace and more importantly, Soba - presenting a horse at a fence and judging striding! All of which most decent event riders would be better at than most jockeys I would have said, so yes, I certainly agree with you. Eventing at the top level also takes - in my opinion - a far greater degree of horsemanship needed than riding in a race, even over fences (look at Sam Thomas, 'nuff said.....) and the fences are far bigger and more scary than chase fences (even the National fences) and solid to boot.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top