Irish Derby

Think of it in breeding and marketing terms - why take him on? Will it really make him more attractive as a stallion?

If he gives Frankel a race it does.

They have Galileo anyway so does it really matter.

I'm not laying the blame at Coolmore. Frankel's connections should be gunning for Camelot. Surely he's not gonna stick to 3yo contests all year.
 
Why are all the O'Brien horses running in the Camelot Smith colours?

Doesn't look right....should be Tabor or Dark Blue
 
If he gives Frankel a race it does.

They have Galileo anyway so does it really matter.

I'm not laying the blame at Coolmore. Frankel's connections should be gunning for Camelot. Surely he's not gonna stick to 3yo contests all year.

Zoffany got within half a length of him...does that make him a real stallion prospect? I think his career to date speaks for itself from a breeding perspective.
 
I may have missed this being mentioned elsewhere, but Born To Sea was declared in first-time blinkers, but was clearly wearing a hood instead (to my eyes, at least). If that's the case, why was he allowed to run - he would have been disqualified from taking part in the UK. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks, but the headgear he wore last night clearly covers his ears, but there don't appear to be any blinker cups attached.

Had my question answered - he wore a hood, but that isn't recognised by Irish authorities, so was listed as blinkers instead. Arse.
 
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To be fair to John Oxx he told the broadcasters the RP had it wrong and he would be wearing a hood again. Not sure if it was a mistake by the RP or not.
 
To be fair to John Oxx he told the broadcasters the RP had it wrong and he would be wearing a hood again. Not sure if it was a mistake by the RP or not.

It's not a mistake per se - the Irish authorities only recognise one type of headgear, so visors/eyeshields/hoods/eyecovers are all listed as blinkers on Irish racecards, and that information will be carried by all news media, including RP, Timeform et al. When the racereaders at TF see that the headgear is a hood for BTS, the database will be changed, but they must run with what they're given for publication.

This article is worth reading:

http://www.theirishfield.ie/site/article.php?id=1973&cid=5
 
Copied below is a good article from Sam Walker in the RP which sums up what a lot of people are probably thinking about this year's classic generation.


Camelot marks himself out as a class apart


By Sam Walker 11:19AM 2 JUL 2012
JULY has arrived and with it the scales of history come poised to weigh the three-year-olds against their elders. While the first half of any year is devoted to finding the best of the Classic generation, the second measures the crop's absolute worth in the wider setting of all-age racing.
One peculiarity with the current group of sophomores is that Camelot is the standout number one, but there is almost no hierarchy to the remainder of the crop.

The Ballydoyle colt is simply outstanding. Not only is he the sole three-year-old to have shown top class ability, he also outshines his contemporaries in consistency, versatility and, indeed, potential for improvement.

The other European three-year-old colts all lack one or more of those attributes, creating this 'one-beats-melee' situation. Until the sophomores run against the older division it is not entirely clear what this means.
It could be that Camelot is easily beating an up-to-scratch bunch of three-year-olds, making him a superstar to rival Frankel, it could be that he is simply a normal three-year-old champion and the rest are entirely useless, or it could be that he is an above-average champion and the rest are slightly below average.

In terms of ratings distribution, it is more likely to be the either first or last options and, given the complete lack of hierarchy behind Camelot, you would have to tend towards the latter.

That doesn't put a limit on how good the dominant leader may prove to be, but it does suggest he may be the benefactor of a slightly below-par crop of Classic rivals. This theory will be put to the test in the coming months.

We already know the 2,000 Guineas form is not worth much. The time was two seconds slower than Homecoming Queen clocked in the 1,000 Guineas and runner-up French Fifteen has been unable to boost or even confirm the form in two subsequent starts.

The Derby runners have had mixed fortunes since, with fourth-placed Thought Worthy seemingly improving next time out to finish third in the King Edward VII, while third-placed Astrology flopped in the same race before being used as a pacemaker for Camelot on Saturday.

But the worry over the quality of the Classic crop is not restricted to just the Classics. The St James's Palace Stakes, for instance, was an opportunity for some new blood to enter the fray.

Most Improved (118) had been talked up as a potential leading three-year-old miler. There was a chance he might have rushed in and torn the sophomores a new A-lister, but in only winning by three-quarters of a length from Hermival, he simply joined the melee.

There is only one A-lister; Camelot is way out in front on RPRs. His Epsom success earned him a mark of 128+ and his RPR of 122 for the Guineas means he is still the top-rated three-year-old miler in Europe.

Behind the Ballydoyle big gun there is a yawning gap. French Fifteen (121) and Born To Sea (120) are next best, but neither of those are rock solid. The French horse has been beaten twice since the Guineas, while the horse with the famous brothers earned his best figure under terrible conditions in the Irish Derby on Saturday.

The early indicators are not great but it is the coming months which will determine how we look back on the Classic form.

One guide to its worth will come in the all-age Group 1s at the back-end of the season. In recent years it has not been hard for the sophomores, often in receipt of a handy weight-for-age allowance, to defeat their seniors at Group 1 level.

On average five sophomores per year manage to win all-age Group 1s in Europe and in recent years there has been a minimum of three. That includes the class of 2007, who lost two of their leading players (Teofilo, Holy Roman Emperor) as juveniles, but still produced Authorized, Sakhee's Secret and Darjina.

Last year, even with Pour Moi ruled out after the Derby, Frankel, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Danedream, Nathaniel, Immortal Verse and Moonlight Cloud all did the business for the three-year-olds.

There are three reasons that this year may not live up to the recent sophomore successes: 1. The older horses (Frankel, Excelebration, Cirrus Des Aigles, St Nicholas Abbey) are very good. 2. With one exception, the sophomores appear to be not very good. 3. Camelot may only race one against his elders - in the Arc.

Other than Camelot, it is hard to see where the Group 1 all-age winners might come from. The form in the book is not good enough for any other three-year-old to beat the old boys in top-flight company, so we should keep an eye out for potential improvers.

Given that none of the highest-rated performances have come from particularly progressive individuals, it may pay to look for something further down the order. Or perhaps it would pay more to simply write them all off?

Could this be the year we get no three-year-old winners at all in the all-age division? Or maybe just one?

One thing's for sure: if you do manage to find another sophomore who can make his or her mark against the best, you're sure to get a decent price.
Until then, much like an equine Germany presiding over his very own Eurozone crisis, it all rests on Camelot.

With the trainers of all five runners complaining that their horse didn't handle the ground, the Irish Derby on Saturday may as well have been run in treacle.

Camelot's "wheels were spinning", it was "too testing" for Akeed Mofeed and Light Heavy "couldn't get his feet out of the ground". None of these horses will be risked in such conditions again, so their ability to handle it matters little.

The winner confirmed his class with an RPR of 123+ and Born To Sea (120) showed he has the stamina of his mother and brothers rather than the speed of his father. But nothing really handled it and the form should be handled cautiously - or not at all.​

Some of the language is a bit hard to get through, though. What does this mean :"There was a chance he might have rushed in and torn the sophomores a new A-lister"?
 
Ha ha, I like his style Grey. He writes some interesting pieces even if some of it is a bit off-key.
 
Huge TV audience for new Irish Derby slot


By Racing Post staff 7:38PM 2 JUL 2012
IRELAND'S national broadcaster RTE has reported that more than 100,000 extra viewers tuned in for the new Saturday evening slot given to the Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby won by Camelot.
The 95-minute broadcast, which featured three races from the Curragh, attracted an average audience of 175,000, up from 66,000 on last year, and peaked at 225,000 for Camelot's win in the big race.
Twelve months ago, RTE's broadcast ran from 2pm to 4pm on Sunday and Robert Hall, who presented Saturday's show alongside Ted Walsh, believes the switch to prime-time television was the main reason for the sharp increase.
"We are absolutely thrilled and it backs up everything we have been telling racecourses over the last couple of years," Hall said.
"Punchestown did it and the Curragh has now shown it can do it. Racing can thrive on prime-time television and it was fantastic that so many people tuned in."
Ryle Nugent, RTE's head of sport, echoed Hall's view and praised the Curragh for making the brave decision to move its marquee event from Sunday afternoon to 7.40pm on Saturday.
"It was a significant decision for the Curragh to make and a very brave one," Nugent said. "It was an unbelievably busy weekend for sport and the viewing figures for the Derby were eyecatching.
"We were one of those pushing hard for the Derby to move to prime-time television on a Saturday night. We felt the Derby still had resonance in Irish sport and the figures on Saturday back that up."

Tote betting was also up thanks to money coming from the PMU in France and the attendance was slightly up too. Not bad given the uncompetitive nature of the race, the lousy going and poor weather. Given the competition they would have faced on the Sunday from big GAA matches and the last day of the Irish Open they will probably stick with the switch to Saturday evening for the Derby.
 
I'm delighted the initiative worked. We don't live in an age where you can survive if you stand still. Racing is an entertainment industry and you need to get prime time coverage and suit the paying public. The biggest problem with the Sunday card has been Kildare's participation in county championships which takes a lot of the locals away. It is now the beginning of a night out when most people have sunday off, rather than being an efternoon event with work the next day. I would love to see the Leopardstown evening meetings move to a Friday night. They tried it for the first meeting but think the weather wasn't great.
 
Copied below is a good article from Sam Walker in the RP which sums up what a lot of people are probably thinking about this year's classic generation.

Watching Great Heavens hacking up in the Lancashire Oaks, I hope some of the 3yo fillies start taking on the colts and their elders soon.
 
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