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Irish Guineas

Gamla Stan said:
You're all talking bollocks as the below shows:

http://www.britishchampionsseries.com/assets/files/NMK030514R4_1M.pdf

Point out where Kingman expended too much energy during the race?
Click to expand...

no we aren't...there was no need for the 11.38 or 11.26..between 3 & 2 and 2 & 1f markers...they had gone fast...he was asking for more when he didn't need to

Night Of Thunder has raced more efficiently

i'll just add..i haven't looked in depth..just a glimpse at the splits...but i think he has wasted unnecessary energy imo
 
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Think everyone's calling it right. Kingman is clearly the fastest horse in terms of absolute speed (by my quick glance he clocked the two fastest furlongs in the race when others were clocking theirs) but I think the argument that NOT will beat him in a truly run race over a stiff mile will hold true. Kingman more likely to win the Sussex, NOT more likely to win the SJP. Speed vs Stamina.
 
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Take that back NOT clocked the quickest furlong. NOT might just be the better horse all round! SJP price looking silly.
 
Nice site the BC one. Looking back at previous years and noticed Frankel clocked a 10.58f in the Queen Anne. What a racehorse he was.

Edited to say: and he ran even quicker than that in the Sussex.
 
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Can quite easily see them splitting the races between them. Would be with Kingman in the Sussex, NOT in the QE2 on soft. SJP not sure, ground will dictate.
 
Gamla Stan said:
You're all talking bollocks as the below shows:

http://www.britishchampionsseries.com/assets/files/NMK030514R4_1M.pdf

Point out where Kingman expended too much energy during the race?
Click to expand...

I've looked again following this - Kingman expends most of his energy getting from the back of the pack to the front of the pack between 3 and 1 out (and thus runs a slower last furlong than NOT). Night of Thunder takes an age to get going before running past a slowing horse.

Compare to the Irish 2000 - Kingman breaks nicely and Doyle settles him towards the rear of midfield, gently eases him forward between 4 and 2 and uses the kick to burst clear from there.
 
simmo said:
I've looked again following this - Kingman expends most of his energy getting from the back of the pack to the front of the pack between 3 and 1 out (and thus runs a slower last furlong than NOT). Night of Thunder takes an age to get going before running past a slowing horse.

Compare to the Irish 2000 - Kingman breaks nicely and Doyle settles him towards the rear of midfield, gently eases him forward between 4 and 2 and uses the kick to burst clear from there.
Click to expand...

Have you got the sectionals for the Irish renewal?

I don't buy that his effort between 3f and 1f out cost him the race at all, his .39 quicker furlong between 3f and 2f is nothing out of the ordinary and as Simon Rowlands pointed out on his blog, Kingman was beat on merit.

I also don't think NOT "takes an age" to get going before running past slowing horses. He runs the quickest splits between 6f and 5f and between 2f and 1f which indicate a very quick horse. Indeed between 2f and 1f, everything makes quicker splits than the previous one bar the three yaks that trailed home last before everything slows down for the last furlong which is to be expected. Night of Thunder runs a perfect race, impressively in a number of ways and beats the Gosden colt on complete merit from looking at this.
 
simmo said:
Have another look at the race - Fallon is rowing along like a cambridge captain for a furlong before he gets a response from NOT.
Click to expand...

The sectionals tell a different story though. I'd rather go with the data than visual impressions.
 
Fallon is deceptive I always think. Always go with the facts which on this occasion say NOT ran faster on a number of measures.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Have you got the sectionals for the Irish renewal?

I don't buy that his effort between 3f and 1f out cost him the race at all, his .39 quicker furlong between 3f and 2f is nothing out of the ordinary and as Simon Rowlands pointed out on his blog, Kingman was beat on merit.

I also don't think NOT "takes an age" to get going before running past slowing horses. He runs the quickest splits between 6f and 5f and between 2f and 1f which indicate a very quick horse. Indeed between 2f and 1f, everything makes quicker splits than the previous one bar the three yaks that trailed home last before everything slows down for the last furlong which is to be expected. Night of Thunder runs a perfect race, impressively in a number of ways and beats the Gosden colt on complete merit from looking at this.
Click to expand...

Kingman still ran the last furlong quicker than everything else including Australia . N of T just was quicker than him over the last two furlongs .
 

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