ISIS...Islamic State Victims
- Thread starter harry
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Grasshopper
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I kinda agree with Warbler on the Saddam point (and only the Saddam point). He may have been a murderous bas*tard too, but IS would never have taken a foothold in Iraq if he'd still been in charge....and similar sentiments apply to Assad in Syria.
Better the murdering ba*stard you know, who only wants control of his local perch, than the one you don't know and has you in his sights.
Edit: Warbler, don't attempt to patronise us with this kind of waffle. No-one has contested your 'boots on the ground' position; only your 'the UK should do nothing at all' position - that and the phantom armies you think are going to save the day.
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No one (Euronymous excepted) ever answered the question about boots on the ground. You came closest however when advocating that the same phantom armies should get involved (even to the point of naming them) and then saying you couldn't see it as contradiction when I named them two weeks later.
The point I was making is that if you're going to get involved, then get involved meaningfully and not half heartedly as we are doing in order to make ourselves feel better
The point I was making is that if you're going to get involved, then get involved meaningfully and not half heartedly as we are doing in order to make ourselves feel better
EC1
On a break
I don't think anyone feels better..not sure how you are getting that tbh...all the politicians i've heard all say its a token exercise..i don't think they know what to do and the planes just buys some time. Seeing as how many of these people are English..bred here...something had to be done..also no action whilst they behead Brits isn't clever. Its PR at the moment..we are saying..you have provoked us..well we have reacted.
what i don't understand is..you've got 10000 of the scumbags..how do we know thats the number by the way?...making their way to Baghdad..surely their convoys can be bombed to hell..thats a lot of vehicles.
early days yet
what i don't understand is..you've got 10000 of the scumbags..how do we know thats the number by the way?...making their way to Baghdad..surely their convoys can be bombed to hell..thats a lot of vehicles.
early days yet
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The estimated number of fighters they have is about 30,000 and growing, and of course they'll be Sadrists and other Saddamists that will latch onto IS who they'll pick up once they get to Baghdad
It's starting to look as if the only thing that's going to stop them is the American's on the ground and then you'll be back to this whole issue of how do you perform an exit, as sure enough the population will prove the gratitude by attacking you
We could be entering a foreign policy field of in/ out, in/ out as clearly all the time and money spent on arming and training an Iraqi army came to nothing
There are a number of advantages to fighting in Iraq over somewhere like Afghanistan so it's probably one we're going to have to take. I'd keep one ey on Libya too, that's every bit as vulnerable and closer still to home
It's starting to look as if the only thing that's going to stop them is the American's on the ground and then you'll be back to this whole issue of how do you perform an exit, as sure enough the population will prove the gratitude by attacking you
We could be entering a foreign policy field of in/ out, in/ out as clearly all the time and money spent on arming and training an Iraqi army came to nothing
There are a number of advantages to fighting in Iraq over somewhere like Afghanistan so it's probably one we're going to have to take. I'd keep one ey on Libya too, that's every bit as vulnerable and closer still to home
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
More executions of Kurdish fighters in the past couple of days - not that we should be surprised.
IS are as big a danger to our own people be it through their attacks or their recruitment as AQ are - if we can put soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan then we can definitely re-deploy them in Iraq this time around and send some into Syria too before it all spreads even further afield (Turkey etc).
Martin
IS are as big a danger to our own people be it through their attacks or their recruitment as AQ are - if we can put soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan then we can definitely re-deploy them in Iraq this time around and send some into Syria too before it all spreads even further afield (Turkey etc).
Martin
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
More executions of Kurdish fighters in the past couple of days - not that we should be surprised.
IS are as big a danger to our own people be it through their attacks or their recruitment as AQ are - if we can put soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan then we can definitely re-deploy them in Iraq this time around and send some into Syria too before it all spreads even further afield (Turkey etc).
Martin
IS are as big a danger to our own people be it through their attacks or their recruitment as AQ are - if we can put soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan then we can definitely re-deploy them in Iraq this time around and send some into Syria too before it all spreads even further afield (Turkey etc).
Martin
icebreaker
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By beheading, it seems. Including women soldiers.
As you say, not surprising. This evil gang have left a trail of beheadiings, crucifixions, eye-gougings, live burials, across the region.
I'm coming to think that a primitive savagery is hardwired into the DNA of Islam. Please note that I am not accusing Muslim people of harbouring such a disposition, before flaming me. Just the ideology of Islam itself. I read that it is the "religion of peace", but there is a lot of evidence of brutalism in the historical narrative of Islam that can't be denied. Just a century ago, in the same region the Mahdi uprising was also marked by large-scale beheadings and other savagery. Thousands of non-believers were killed. The Mahdists too created their own Islamic State which was only defeated by an alliance of Britain, Egypt, and other countries.
I dunno. Maybe it is because Islam is a new(ish) religion which has still to grow up and grow into tolerance and compassion. I suppose Christianity also had episodes of cruelty in its early period.
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I've wondered about that before. Christianity went through a conversion/ crusading stage after about 1000 years
I reckon they could run the RAF out of missiles at this rate though. They've got access to a hell of lot more Toyota pick up trucks then we have Brimstone missiles. All they need to do is go and nick one, sling an ironing board into its loading deck and then park it near a bridge or roadside
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simmo
Senior Jockey
I don't agree with this at all. 1400 years is hardly new. Ish or otherwise.
Christianity had "episodes" of cruelty until at least 1740+
I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to suggest that the reduction in cruelty of Christianity coincides with the Industrial Revolution and the subsequent decline of Christianity (and reduction of zeal) coincides with the results of the Industrial Revolution and the concentration of western humanity in the accumulation of stuff.
It's no coincidence that the most zealous Christian countries now are the least developed.
Perhaps capitalism is good for some things. If we can work out how to drop some from a bomber, we'll be all the way.
icebreaker
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Yes, you're probably right.
I guess I was thinking aloud -- and helplessly trying to come to an understanding of how a religion could incorporate a philosophy like Jihad into its belief system, and how some of its adherents could come to think that beheadings and other unspeakable crimes are a pathway to heaven.
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simmo
Senior Jockey
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition....
Could argue that the USA is pretty strongly christian.
One point that frustrates me is the "christianity was the same once you know!"
So fcking what?
Do you still wet the bed?
Its an argument put forward by usual apologists who also squeal islamaphobia at every turn. Its designed to lessen the accusations that islam is infected with paranoia, hatred and intolerance
EC1
On a break
when religions of any kind are discussed in this way it always makes me think of an illness you recover from..ooh yes it used to be really bad..i felt like beheading somebody at my worst....but i'm a lot better now
i'll be honest...the religious stuff is just a well oiled excuse for going round killing whoever you want to..it don't wash with me at all..maybe they all have freckles as well..maybe that's what's bringing all the killing on.
to me its like murderers of the world unite into one big ugly group....and i'm real glad the Brit ones have f00ked off over there..saves us having murdering scum on streets here..reduces number anyway...its best we deal with it in any small way going...even the aussies are joining in now..they call them isis murder cult..which the BBC should also describe them in that way ..all the time..instead of islamic state..thats a misnomer..they don't represent Islam at all..and i'm surprised they haven't been stopped referring to them in that way tbh
i'll be honest...the religious stuff is just a well oiled excuse for going round killing whoever you want to..it don't wash with me at all..maybe they all have freckles as well..maybe that's what's bringing all the killing on.
to me its like murderers of the world unite into one big ugly group....and i'm real glad the Brit ones have f00ked off over there..saves us having murdering scum on streets here..reduces number anyway...its best we deal with it in any small way going...even the aussies are joining in now..they call them isis murder cult..which the BBC should also describe them in that way ..all the time..instead of islamic state..thats a misnomer..they don't represent Islam at all..and i'm surprised they haven't been stopped referring to them in that way tbh
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when religions of any kind are discussed in this way it always makes me think of an
It is not ALL religion. This is a cover all to again lessen the very harsh fact that one religion stands out explicitly as being the home to hatred and violence
I actually find it pretty nasty that all religions are grouped under the same banner and when no current parallel can be found, The old "should have seen them 900 years ago!" crops up sounding like something out of monty python
When Quakers, methodists, buddists, church of england members, hindus ... call for the killing of gays apostates and the mutilation of women, let alone the endemic violence, then we can talk about it
And remember that so called moderate islam leaders have called for all the above and described the nazis as a "gift from god"
No wonder the extremes are what they are
Why should Islam poison the name of other religions that do absolutely no harm at all? Why???
No EC. You are not at the BBC or the Guardian here .
It is not ALL religion. This is a cover all to again lessen the very harsh fact that one religion stands out explicitly as being the home to hatred and violence
I actually find it pretty nasty that all religions are grouped under the same banner and when no current parallel can be found, The old "should have seen them 900 years ago!" crops up sounding like something out of monty python
When Quakers, methodists, buddists, church of england members, hindus ... call for the killing of gays apostates and the mutilation of women, let alone the endemic violence, then we can talk about it
And remember that so called moderate islam leaders have called for all the above and described the nazis as a "gift from god"
No wonder the extremes are what they are
Why should Islam poison the name of other religions that do absolutely no harm at all? Why???
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EC1
On a break
well you were discussing Christianity in a similar way a few posts back..but my point is..i don't care for any religion..i have no axe against individual ones..i can't stand any of em...the sooner religion disappears from the world the better everyone would be..its a primitive mind state that has no place in a modern world..its like believing in father xmas..except if you find others that don't believe in him..you kill them
they are just murderers to me...their religion is as relevant as the colour of their hair to me
they are just murderers to me...their religion is as relevant as the colour of their hair to me
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Cant have that EC
The hatred that is driven into them by various forms of islam (and not as "Extreme" as some like to pretend) is what drives them to murder.
why would the world be better off without religions that do absolutely no harm to anybody and yet offer comfort and charity to those that need it?
Bracketing quakers say with salafists is just plain wrong
it is also very patronising to state that many modern religions are primitive. it could well be that known science is "primitive" . It is certainly arrogant and I have myself certainly found that the Richard Dawkins of this world can be pretty offensive and actually in his supposed certainty, a bit immature.
The hatred that is driven into them by various forms of islam (and not as "Extreme" as some like to pretend) is what drives them to murder.
why would the world be better off without religions that do absolutely no harm to anybody and yet offer comfort and charity to those that need it?
Bracketing quakers say with salafists is just plain wrong
it is also very patronising to state that many modern religions are primitive. it could well be that known science is "primitive" . It is certainly arrogant and I have myself certainly found that the Richard Dawkins of this world can be pretty offensive and actually in his supposed certainty, a bit immature.
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EC1
On a break
fair enough Clive
icebreaker
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All of the above is so very true.
But it does appear that most world leaders are reluctant to speak this truth -- perhaps out of fear of appearing un-PC.
However, I do see a time coming when some countries will question some of the tenets of Islam and call it for what it is.
Rest In Peace to Alan Henning who has been beheaded in a video released in the past half-hour. A decent good-hearted man.
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I am beginning to think that too. After 9/11 and 7/7 when it was clear that quite a significant minority (polls were usually around 25% i think) of muslims together with their loser fellow travellers, supported the attacks, then i did wonder where we were heading.
Things quietened down but is it significant that small actions such as the increasingly widespread wearing of the niqab (its all over some parts of london) are sending a message of extremism?
RIP you fine man
The day when the attacker is killed (and i believe it should be after six months of continuous torture) will be as happy as the great day bin laden was shot
Things quietened down but is it significant that small actions such as the increasingly widespread wearing of the niqab (its all over some parts of london) are sending a message of extremism?
RIP you fine man
The day when the attacker is killed (and i believe it should be after six months of continuous torture) will be as happy as the great day bin laden was shot
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icebreaker
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If memory serves, I think late last year that Angola became the first country to outlaw Islam. I'm open to correction, tho', as there were conflicting reports on the matter at the time. I am certain however that mosques in the country were demolished by government order because "Islam is incompatible with Angolan society and culture".
And perhaps Angola has reversed the banning after it came under a fair amount of international pressure to do so. (Isn't funny on the other hand how no pressure is exerted on Saudi Arabia to halt its suppression of non-Muslims in that country).
G-G
Senior Jockey
So unfair. A thoroughly decent man under no reward or in the name of any religion , did what he did, purely to help his fellow human beings. I feared he was always doomed though as IS would have come up with any pathetic reason to carry out his murder. They do not act in the name of anything decent, moral, humane or worthy of any empathy from their fellow mankind.
His poor family, the images of his last moments everywhere for the world to see must be absolutely horrifying for them.
If there is a God, may he/she bless him and all like him, but I wonder why he/she allows such evil in the world in the first place?