ISIS...Islamic State Victims

clivex said:
No it wasn't. It was an outright blunder. That's what he tried to claim afterwards. Didnt think that washed with anyone, especially given his past comments about the British in europe
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I suggest you go back and re-read it - you are making a fool of yourself.
 
EC1 said:
ok
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Cheers . Can be a bit tiresome to keep up with posts I know

This has been a damned good thread with the best contributors active. no reason to let others try and distarct from that
 
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icebreaker said:
Just the one sentence, yet I cannot understand it.
I have never seen Clive say anything derogatory against ordinary Muslims. And as for accdusing him of "drumming up hatred against ordinary Muslims", that is simply outrageous, Grey. If you said that on a public forum about me I would be very annoyed indeed.
Regarding Islam, Clive does make the reasonable observation that some aspects of its teachings require examination and rebuttal. With that I wholeheartedly agree.
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I don't think it's outrageous at all, especially since the same person routinely labels those who disagree with him about Israeli behaviour towards Gaza as "jew haters" and anti-semites. Have a look at his post #472, the one just before the post I responded to.
 
clivex said:
I am beginning to think that too. After 9/11 and 7/7 when it was clear that quite a significant minority (polls were usually around 25% i think) of muslims together with their loser fellow travellers, supported the attacks, then i did wonder where we were heading.

Things quietened down but is it significant that small actions such as the increasingly widespread wearing of the niqab (its all over some parts of london) are sending a message of extremism?

RIP you fine man

The day when the attacker is killed (and i believe it should be after six months of continuous torture) will be as happy as the great day bin laden was shot
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No need

I will do it

There is absolutely nothing in above post that generalises about all Muslims. Don't you understand the meaning of the word minority?

The figure I quoted was correct and even then I have indicated that we did not head down the road many expected

You are contributing nothing but stirring.

You are nailed on the c of e question

As I said. A total time waster
 
Grey said:
I don't think it's outrageous at all,
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Of course it is, Grey. And if you can't see it then I'm frankly surprised and a little disappointed with you.
These are times of religious and ethnic tensions in the world. To accuse someone on a public forum of "drumming up hatred against ordinary Muslims" is irresponsible at least. Such accusations can have consequences. More than you and me read this forum. To make such a remark without proof or evidence IS outrageous in my little universe.
I honestly believe that you should retract it, or at least delete it from your post.

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I'm not sure we need to take ourselves quite so seriously, icebreaker, but how come your concern doesn't extend to clivex labelling other forum members as "jew haters" for no better reason than criticising Israeli policy towards Gaza?
 
clivex said:
Cheers . Can be a bit tiresome to keep up with posts I know

This has been a damned good thread with the best contributors active. no reason to let others try and distarct from that
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And let's not forget the racist who started it! ;)
 
I think accusations of generating hatred (with one eye on the mods no doubt) are not exactly light

I have never complained to a mod and probably never will but that gets close

should just get back to subject now
 
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Grey said:
I'm not sure we need to take ourselves quite so seriously, icebreaker, but how come your concern doesn't extend to clivex labelling other forum members as "jew haters" for no better reason than criticising Israeli policy towards Gaza?
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Are you sure that Clive wasn't making the the reasonable comment that some pro-Palestine viewpoints and pro-Palestine protests were underscored by an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish sentiment? That, rather than he accused forum members of being anti-Jewish?
Anyway, it's not likely that some Jew is going to issue a fatwa or is going to behead anyone on here for taking an anti-Israeli stance.

Edit to note that he suggests in the post above that we get back on subject. I agree; maybe we should leave this behind us and move on?
 
Not surprised.

It's what makes this silly Cameron/ Blair/ Clinton/ Hague line so baffling. They genuinely believed that if we'd have supported the so called moderate opposition in Syria 18 months ago (not that they could identify anyone of that ilk) then ISIS wouldn't have happened.:lol:

Yes it would

Like it did in Iran, like it did in Libya, and like it would have done in Egypt had the military not moved in when they did.

The radical working classes out number the middle class democrats, and more improtantly, they're better fighters. You're natural ally (as the Egyptians have shown) was the dictatorial government of the day and its military. A catalogue of catastrophic strategic misjudgement perpetrated by George Bush, Tony Blair and Clivex

You can fly 6 tornados round if you want. Hell you can fly 106, it'll make next to no difference. You'll run out of brimstone missiles before they run out of subarus and personnel, as every day more and more radicalised mussy's are flocking in from the worlds trouble spots over porous borders

Some day you're going to have to go back there with a reinvasion, and the longer this decision is left, the b igger that invasion will need to be. I do wonder what it is that Chilcott can have found (the judge not the rugby player) that has so terrified the commander of the Eton cadet corps. The report you'll remember should have been publsihed years ago but has been humanely suffocated
 
clivex said:
I'm sorry but this is wrong. Russel brand pointed out that this is britains fault for "alienating" Muslim youths who live in council paid £1m flats in maida vale

Of course he will now point out to Jennings family that they are responsible
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It's not wrong. It's my opinion. Russell Brand? Seriously?

Their name is Henning.
 
G G. . It was heavy handed bit of sarcasm there from me

Yes. Brand did say that and is also protesting against the bombings, which also tells you exactly who he wants to prevail. On the one hand he's not worth a second of any ones time but oin the other it is a little surprising that the media aren't hammering him for this

Predictive text got name wrong. Just noticed
 
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Warbler

You are somewhat saying the same thing over and over again. Ok mistakes might have been made but name a leader who always foresaw every world event. Even your hero saddam didnt predict getting his arse kicked in Kuwait did he?

I honestly don't know where this goes now.
 
Why can't the jets bomb the ISIL artillery and tanks on the outskirts of Kobani?
It seems on the TV that they are highly visible, yet no airstrikes in support of the Kurdish fighters. Kobani is almost fallen; there could well be civilian massacre.
 
I have wondered that. Is it because it's in Syria? And turkey are close by? Surely matters like that should be put to one side?

Sometimes the right thing has to be done first and then the sensitivities addressed afterwards
 
icebreaker said:
Why can't the jets bomb the ISIL artillery and tanks on the outskirts of Kobani?
It seems on the TV that they are highly visible, yet no airstrikes in support of the Kurdish fighters. Kobani is almost fallen; there could well be civilian massacre.
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I think they have today.
 
In the perverse world of David Cameron and Barrack Obama bombing IS in Syria is supporting Assad (who frankly is a much better bet than IS). The Turks for their part adopt a similar attitude that having PKK sympathisers slaughtered is no bad thing.

Oh what a mess
 
lets say IS keeps going unchecked...at some point they will get to the border of someone that has a nuclear deterrent...maybe that will actually stop them..lets say you have that power and IS are coming towards you at a safe distance..safe enough to detonate a small device..will someone actually do that i wonder

Israel ?
 
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I'm frankly amazed that Turkey are permitting this on their own doorstep and appear to be doing next to nothing.....other than harrassing Kurdish refugees. You'd think they would have rolled their tanks over the border by now.
 
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EC1 said:
lets say IS keeps going unchecked...at some point they will get to the border of someone that has a nuclear deterrent...maybe that will actually stop them..lets say you have that power and IS are coming towards you at a safe distance..safe enough to detonate a small device..will someone actually do that i wonder

Israel ?
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I did speculate on this a month ago pointing out that the only thing standing in their way would be Hezbollah, who, when they started to fight alongside the Syrians, did start to throw IS back. It was as they suffered these reversals that IS crossed more aggressively into Iraq (they'd been there earlier). Hezbollah might find themselves protecting Israel yet in this wildly perverse would, alhtough there is a border that would mean they wouldn't need to cross through Lebanon

The west (I use the term loosely as the likes of Turkey and Saudi Arabia have been far from convincing) all seem to have their own little agendas which has opened up a timely vacuum that IS can continue to exploit. I suspect the Turks believe they could throw IS back within days

In the meantime their numbers will swell as swarms of Jihadis bred to be martyrs will file in from all over the world

Meanwhile Cameron continues to play Tornados and smiles at Obama saying "are you pleased with me now Mr President, you see I'm a better friend than the French aren't I". David Cameron is really the Graeme Swann of foreign affairs, the aresy gobshite who hides behind his bigger harder friend that stops others getting at him

Isn't it funny how Cameron could get himself so animated and Hague could be so certain that widespread attrocities were going to happen in Libya and that they had to move within hours. Yet when they have the clearly observed growth of IS where there are genuine reasons to believe that widespread slaughter could occur (not Hagues imaginary ones) they sit on his fingers and spin.

The American's were never completely convinced by the French and British reports in Libya anyway, but the Europeans succeeded in scarring them with the spectre of Rwanda. As ground had been lost, gained, lost, and regained, and no evidence of widespread graves were found, the American's were right to be sceptical. Sarkozy was looking for a foreign success to boost his re-election in May, and Cameron was massively inexperienced, came into post intoxicated on prejudice, and was hopelessly lost in the 1980's, and therefore unable to adapt to the new world

Consequently having played the card once and been found not only to have been wrong, but to have ultimately generated a bigger problem than that which existed under Gadaffi, it's possible the untrustworthy Europeans have lost influence. They themselves are militarily to weak to do anything without the American's, so an impasse sets in which IS exploit
 
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