ISIS...Islamic State Victims

Cameron said this, so and so did that. They started it it was their fault etc etc..........who gives a fook?

Time to pick up a weapon and kill everymotherfuckin lesbian on the planet
 
clivex said:
Frankly I for one do not believe for a minute that "resolving" the caliphate will make any difference at all.
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I honestly believe this to be the most significant comment so far on the thread, and I am surprised that Warbler, for all his crystal-ball gazing has not addressed it.

FWIW, I entirely agree with the sentiment. I don't think attacking or even destroying the Caliphate ( which is unlikely) will change the current dynamic.
Even if such a far-fetched outcome of killing off the Caliphate was to be realised, the underlying ideology which is the driver of Islamic State will still be there and will continue to draw in those of twisted mindset.
What is truly needed is a root-and-branch overhaul of the basic tenets of Islam -- the bit about it being a duty to kill kuffars, the requirement to kill gays, adulterous women and all the other crap. When you dig deep enough into its fundamentalist doctrine and dogma , you will see that it is Islam itself which is the "Death Cult" every bit as much as ISIS.

Changing and addressing the basic flaws in this "religion" is another matter, tho'. Islam doesn't have a top-down hierarchy like the Pope/Cardinals of the Roman Church, or the Queen/Cardinal of the CofE, who would be able to organise a synod to make doctrinal changes in creed. Imams are independent of each other in thinking and in teaching.
Also, there is the challenge of changing the views of a sizeable segment of the Muslim laity on such things. A decent percentage of them already agree with the most extreme views -- 27% of them polled approved of the Charlie Hebdo killings.

Whats the solution? I dunno, and I despair.
 
Whats the solution? I dunno, and I despair.............

There is only one solution but 1st we need our own version of Vlad the Impaler. Adolph Hitler or Genghis Khan to wipe the fookers out.

Alternatively we wait until they do it to us.
 
Totally agree

the polling is accurate because it is nearly always around that percentage that agrees with the extreme bigotry and the atrocities

after Charlie hebdo there was the disgusting apologia for their actions for the usual useful idiots. They have virtually no comprehension of the very fact that they will always find something to be offended by. They are full of hate and are riven by self hate (rightly) .

I am also sick of the too many morons on the left shouting down any criticism of this despised "religion" as "racist" . Aside from being fundamentally ridiculous and illogical it's the usual method of attempting to suppress any hostility towards their fellow bigots. Islamophobia is yet another nasty phrase. Try using that in the streets of Paris today

lets make one completely unarguable point clear. If you have any libertarian liberal values whatsoever you should be completely hostile to a cult that strives to impose their revolting views on the rest of us. There can be no excuses. Nothing. And that is a pretty significant minority of Muslims
 
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Tanlic said:
Whats the solution? I dunno, and I despair.............

There is only one solution but 1st we need our own version of Vlad the Impaler. Adolph Hitler or Genghis Khan to wipe the fookers out.

Alternatively we wait until they do it to us.
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That's the trouble with people like you tanlic ... All that liberal wishy washy hand wringing



:ninja:
 
You cannot reform Islam, because the Prophet's words are not open to re-interpretation. To attempt to do this, means rendering yourself apostate.

What really needs to happen is for people to see ALL religions for what they are - hocus-pocus mumbo-jumbo that is not relevant in the 21st century - and for them to be consigned en-masse to the dustbin of history.
 
One thing I dislike is the watering down by blaming all religion. Not having that. Hindus, buddists and all the rest are not threatening the way of life of the rest of us.
 
What would happen to all cathedrals/temples and places of worship around the world if all religion was wiped out?!!!

Surely for the most part religion in general is about tradition and cultural history.

Clearly religious leaders need to tolerate those who don't believe, this is where there is obviously major problems within the middle east, because unlike the U.K the governments over there are basically devout religious ideologues, (and that includes the Israeli's).

What people choose to believe or disbelieve in their own minds is not really my business, not for me to speculate or try and change either, until they do something like what's happened in Paris, which is crossing the line in a big way.
 
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Drone said:
Clive's base, visceral reaction is of course exactly what the perpetrators wish the public would vent en-masse

I was about to retire to bed last night in my usual neutral, relaxed state of mind when the news broke and I ended up watching it unfold transfixed (if that's a suitable word) into the small hours; my neutral, relaxed frame morphing into one of anger and hate with all sorts of Clivexian thoughts infecting the grey cells: negative thoughts that might provide a temporary relieving of blood pressure but solve nothing

I hate ISIL et al for provoking hate in me; a hitherto alien trait in gentle, libertarian, laid-back Drone

Hollande is at last using the w word and with USA, Russia and most-and-sundry joining in condemnation this must surely be an opportunity to seize an awful but bringing together moment and plan a concerted joint operation to wipe out ISIL et al. This will undoubtedly result in the deaths of thousands of innocents, but that is war isn't it. I recall many saying that a good reason for the west not to get involved in Syria when it all went up there that there would be thousands of civilian casualties. Yes there would indeed: thousands in a short time rather than the thousands that have died over the long time since we backed off. Smething I was in agreement with at the time incidentally, but you never stop learning and you should never be concerned about changing your mind in response to events

I am now of the opinion that we go in hard, very hard: or not at all

Words are easy of course
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I agree with the highlighted part.

I live in Paris and was on the Rue de Charonne at 21h on friday, and luckily (for me) walked south east to have a drink rather than the opposite direction.

You would be broken hearted to listen to witness account after witness account. It's hard to know what to say. Sitting outside having a drink or something to eat, or going to a concert, or a football game, are all huge parts of our way of life. Paris yesterday was eerie, most shops, cinema, muséums etc shut and many cafes. People walked around in a daze, even in areas were there were some people, it was so quiet.

It's not the time for émotive responses but I thought Valls spoke well last night, and strongly (he's a stronger leader than Hollande).

The issue here in France isn't just about what happened Friday night; France has a population of muslims that are extremely disaffected, who hate the country and way of life. If people can't see that, they are blind. That is not to say there isn't fault with what France did in the past, housing them in made up areas etc. And France is a more racist country in some respects than say Britain. That, along with exterminating ISIS, is the challenge France faces - how to re-affirm French values and either exclude or expel those who don't share them. How did they do the last part I don't know.

With regard to ISIS in the ME, France, US et al simply have to forge an alliance with Russia and stop all this nonsense re Assad. Assad is what he is but the Syrians would be much better off with him in power than anyone else (that is a realistic option).

Another small point - Merkel may have made the blunder of all blunders in opening European borders to refugees. Cameron's 'from the camps' approach may look very wise as the movement of Frida's terrorists becomes known, as it is today.
 
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clivex said:
One thing I dislike is the watering down by blaming all religion. Not having that. Hindus, buddists and all the rest are not threatening the way of life of the rest of us.
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They don't need religion - they're good prople by nature.

You're argument appears to be that some fantasist nonsense is more valid than other fantasist nonsense, by dint of the fact that it doesn't encourage being a cu*nt.

That may be true, but it's still fantasist nonsense, and a quick look at ehat is happening with Hindu nationalism in India will also make a mockery of your position.
 
But these other world religions don't propose in their credo's and scriptures the killing of non-believers.
These other world religions (mainly) preach peaceful co-existence, tolerance and respect for all living things. They advocate Compassion -- a human trait and concept which is strikingly lacking in the pages of the Koran.

Saying that all world religions should be dismantled because of the unpleasantness of one (Islam) is a bit like saying that because the Ford Pinto is probably the most dangerous motorcar ever made then all cars should be banned.
 
One doesn't immediately associate petty criminals with regular church-going but apparently this was the case with the one terrorist identified so far: mosque-going in his case of course

Perhaps Islam welcomes criminals and somewhere in the Koran it states 'thou shalt steal' :confused:
 
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Drone said:
One doesn't immediately associate petty criminals with regular church-going but apparently this was the case with the one terrorist identified so far: mosque-going in his case of course

Perhaps Islam welcomes criminals and somewhere in the Koran it states 'thou shalt steal'
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Amongst the hate-filled rhetoric I've seen about this subject over this weekend, this has to be the most cretinous. Unbelievably stupid.
 
If it's the interview I saw they said there had been changes at the mosque. The muslim world must be more vocal in their condemnation of what's happening. I'm of the left wing pacifist persuasion but I'm feeling utter despair and hatred tonight.
 
simmo said:
Amongst the hate-filled rhetoric I've seen about this subject over this weekend, this has to be the most cretinous. Unbelievably stupid.
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Not a particularly constructive post perhaps but hardly "hate-filled" as it was just an attempt at irony

I've added what I think is an appropriate emoticon to the last line, lest anyone else misinterprets my words

I stand by the premise that I find it very strange that a petty criminal - and a known petty criminal at that - feels that being a crook doesn't conflict with his faith

Apologies for provoking your ire Simmo
 
Could there be a better venue for the football on tues. Thank God france are not olaying Qatar. Hats off to the fa for the anthem initiative and the French fa for adamantly keeping the fixture on track . It will be a mOving sight and thoughts will be with diarra who I remeber well from chelsea

as for isis, well reported today that the welcome evaporation of the moron was strongly down to on the ground intelligence. It's an intersting scenario. Disaffected isis soldiers of which there must be a few at least are facing death anyway so why not turn? If things implode further for the scum then there will be more and more of this surely
 
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moehat said:
I'm of the left wing pacifist persuasion but I'm feeling utter despair and hatred tonight.
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I'm of the left-of-centre hitherto pacifist persuasion Moe and I find it deeply worrying that such as you and I are developing these alien feelings of hate, despair and in my case a belief now that full blown war is the only way to sort this out; or rather, perhaps, the best way to try and sort it out

If we are typical of the tolerant unbigoted citizens of the western world I dread to think what the less tolerant and bigoted are thinking

I also find it shameful that on my regular trips to the West Riding which has large populations of muslims I now find myself uneasy and uncomfortable when our paths meet. Not because I think they're all potential terrorists but for the totally illogical reason that they're muslim: that's another nascent hate developing within me in response to this awful business - self-hate for disliking members a creed/culture/faith for no other reason that they're members of it
 
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The haters have always been haters and always will be. Drone clearly ain't one.

What I think Drone is reflecting, as I believe this is increasingly typical of a mood change across society, is people are starting to make the journey where by they're starting to recognise war is inevitable. It's my old 'dismal hypothesis' I'm afraid.

I'm not detecting too much gung ho, lets go out and introduce them to Mr Johnny Nuke type of stuff (suspect biological warfare is the WMD answer anyway - but that can wait for another day). It's the grim realisation that the crescent and the cross on a collision course. I think the over riding emotion of new mood is one of depression, but 'needs must'

It isn't long, once people realise this, before they start asking the next questions. If this is an irreversible direction of travel, (it needn't be of course, you take your view on that) then are we not best off taking this war on our terms? and so when is that? Does it not make sense to take it sooner rather than later? At the moment we hold the advantage of population (within our own continent) and weapons technology (outside of it). This gap will close though. Our structures are woefully inadequate for prosecuting the sort of conflict coming, but they can be brought up to speed within 2-3 years - then it's all up to President Trump!

What we do need to do though is think smart. This is war that we're sliding into, and there are going to many more casualties yet. I can't actually see one leader on the world stage on 'our' side who seems to have the grasp of what's needed here (Putin apart).

Obama, Cameron and Hollande have been targeting the wrong enemy
Merkel has rung the dinner bell for every Jihadist in the middle east to come to Europe (and she's paying them to do so)
Even on Friday Cameron was stupidly trying to claim over inflated credit for an attack to which the UK was peripheral (thanks Dave! - engage brain please)

I'll see if I can get round to your other post of earlier today Ice, later. Suffice to say though, I don't believe the Islamic States caliphate is undefeatable, and I do think there are ways that we might be able to put a lid on things yet - but I have got so little faith in this generation of political leaders to make the correct decisions, that I think war gets nearer by the month.

Just to give you an example, about 6 weeks ago everyone was condemning Russian intervention weren't they? Not just this forum, but the media, and our leaders. No one does so anymore do they? That's how far behind the curve they are, and how fast things are moving. Everyone seems to be accepting Russia now as a welcome partner. I still say we need to get a bigger global alliance, and try and persuade the Chinese with their frankly massive reserve of military manpower to play a part. We simply can not afford to lose this, and the army they're capable of mobilising dwarfs anything else on the planet
 
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