K. Fallon's antics at Longchamp today

Songsheet said:
While we all know various levels of 'disciplining' go on in yards, punching a filly hyped up seconds before loading to race achieves precisely nothing, other than self-satisfaction on the part of the punchee.

And I too have many years of experience in dealing with thoroughbreds, so like everything in life, the opinions we all hold are not necessarily 'right' or 'wrong'. However, if it was my filly, seconds before such a prestigious race who was treated like that, I would be incandescent. Sure, at home when the surroundings are familiar and the filly is arsing about, she'd get short shrift if I felt she was taking the p*ss but just before the off any such punishment, regardless of whether or not we think it actually hurt her, is a waste of time.

Stall handlers should do their jobs properly, which means dealing with difficult animals. Jockeys are there to ride the animal, not lose their temper with it.

Have I lost my rag with any of mine? Too right I have - the ISHIGURU filly got a sorting out the time before last when being trimmed by my extremely patient and kind farrier. It was her fourth trim, she'd been playing up each time and been handled kindly but firmly but she has the kind of temeprament that just has to see how far she can go. So she found out... Funny but last week she was sweet and angelic almost with the farrier.

None of us get it right every time but the real art of dealing with horses is to chose your time and not react to theirs.
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It looked bad whateve he did . The punch was unnecessary and then to top it all he gave her a crap ride .Fallon is such an overrated jockey. Strong in a finish but frequently tactically inept.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Songsheet, I understand that Fallon hit the filly in the belly when she planted - usually a fairly standard way of getting a horse to move when you're on the ground and they have planted, and hardly in any way cruel. Indeed, she probably hardly felt it, certainly no more than receiving a kick in the belly from a rider on board. Waving a whip around behind a horse is, again, fairly standard practice when one is planting; arguably less frightening for the filly than having a long-tom cracked or waved behind her which would happen to a horse reluctant to start under NH rules or in a point.
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Sorry but I totally disagree. I didn't see the incident, granted but if he was holding onto her reins, most likely at some 90 degrees on to her, then if you can tell me how kicking her in the belly actually achieved forward motion, I'd be interested. She might shy away, go backwards - or, if she had her back to the stalls, move in reverse towards them but achieve forward motion ? Nope! We're talking a Flat race here with stalls, by the way - and a youngster too - not a recalcitrant older NH or Pointer who acting up because they are basically monkeys.

We have no real way of knowing what the filly felt. But being by MONTJEU and knowing his breed are exceptionally highly-strung, we can pretty much guess the filly may well have been OTT with a vengeance! And guessing at those particular sets of circumstances, then the horsewoman in you knows full well that a kick, punch, whatever...... really isn't going to achieve what you want it to - which is to get the filly calm enough to load - presumably - and race well.

Which is precise why the filly was there for in the first place, remember.

Fallon has done this before. His fecking record is such that he's just finished an eighteen month bloody ban for aberrant behaviour and some of you are still defending him??

Good grief...
 
Songsheet said:
Fallon has done this before. His fecking record is such that he's just finished an eighteen month bloody ban for aberrant behaviour and some of you are still defending him??
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Can you please tell me what relevance the reasons for his ban have to this particular situation, Songsheet?
 
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Who mentioned kicking the filly in the belly? No-one, to my recollection. If she had planted on going into the stalls then no, Fallon most likely wouldn't have hold of the reins since he was reportedly on the floor - the stalls handlers would have hold of her. He certainly wouldn't have hold of the reins when he was standing behind her waving a whip at her, unless he had Go-Go-Gadget arms! I haven't seen the incident either but reports say he got off her and hit her in the belly. Not a lot wrong with that in my book; it's pretty much standard procedure when you have a horse stop on you. Anyway, whatever he did must have done the trick as she did load, so all the stuff about getting her calm enough to load, etc, is a moot point as well as probably irrelevant to this particular point. Clowance is also a four year old in her third season of racing, so not really the youngster you say she is.

As for the 18 month ban, it was for testing positive for drugs, not abusing horses, so where the ban becomes relevant I have no idea whatsoever.
 
The relevance is, trackside, SL is that Fallon lacks self-control - I would have thought that to be obvious from his career history. Yes, he's a very good jockey but imo, not an exceptional horseman.

If those on here wish to continue defending him - fine - that's of course entirely up to you but I've always found him overly harsh on his mounts, do not think he's the kind of representative racing needs - especially now in the current economic climate and if his ban had been permanent, I wouldn't have been particularly unhappy about it.

The fact that she loaded and then ran, according to the reports, a crap race pretty much sums the situation up.
 
I'm sorry Songsheet but Fallon's ban has no relevance whatsoever in this issue; he was not banned for abusing horses but for something entirely different. I cannot but feel that there is a bit of straw-clutching going on in citing his ban in this case.

I am defending Fallon in this instance as I feel that he has done nothing wrong this time - I'm hardly going to hang him out to dry purely for the reason that in the past he has served a ban for doing coke as it has no relevance here at all.

Whatever anyone thinks about Fallon, he is a superb jockey and one of the best flat jockeys we've had for some years and I wouldn't say he was a bad horseman. Mind you since you clearly don't like him you're not likely to change your mind on this one anyway!
 
I could equally say the same for your viewpoint, SL - just because you consider him to be a 'superb jockey' doesn't mean to say he is - any more than my opinion that he is at least a step below that is 'correct'.

Of course his ban for drug abuse is relevant - for the very reason I cited - ie he patently lacks self-control.
 
I rate Fallon as a jockey but as a person, my thoughts on him are well documented but you're clutching at straws Songsheet. His drug ban has nothing to do with him hitting this filly, I could name a list of jockeys as long as my arm who hit horses but don't have past drug bans.

It's part and parcel of racing due to the culture within racing, now whether you think that is right or wrong is the real debate.
 
Fair enough Songsheet - I reckon I'd find one or two people who might tend to agree with me that Fallon is a superb jockey!! :D
 
I thought I had made it clear, GS, that I don't consider it to be acceptable and gave my reasons quite a bit earlier in this thread which were discounted by some. Obviously didn't make it clear enough!:p

Sorry but I don't need to 'clutch' at any straws - we've a telehandler for that sort of malarkey ! :whistle:
 
SS,

He was hardly a drug addict. If you have that opinion on every person who has taken drugs at some point, I suspect you'd have little time for most people; it's just not relevant to Fallon the jockey, though you're more than entitled to make your own opinions on a person's characteristics.
 
Hamm - where did I say Fallon was a drug addict ? Please don't alter what I wrote as I certainly have not made any such statement.
 
I never said you said that. I said his use of drugs was pretty low and that condemnation of him on that point is OTT, imo.
 
Fallons behaviour is and always has been erratic. He's a timebomb. There are equally as talented jockeys who go about their business in a quiet,dignified and professional manner . Even when Johnny Murtagh was having his problems he wasn't half the tosser Fallon was. In my opinion he's also a better jockey. Perhaps if he moved around more in the saddle when riding like Fallon does he might get the credit he deserves.
 
Sheikh said:
Fallons behaviour is and always has been erratic. He's a timebomb. There are equally as talented jockeys who go about their business in a quiet,dignified and professional manner . Even when Johnny Murtagh was having his problems he wasn't half the tosser Fallon was. In my opinion he's also a better jockey. Perhaps if he moved around more in the saddle when riding like Fallon does he might get the credit he deserves.
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Would agree with that on the whole but Murtagh has his moments in the saddle. I've never seen a jockey ride Nad Al Sheba as badly as him.
 
As someone who did see the incident, I continue to feel that the punch was out of order, and I would think that whoever the jockey was. He basically got down from the saddle and clouted her in the belly pretty much as his feet touched the ground, and the impression was that it was reaction/temper/frustration.

When I was learning to ride I was taught, amongst other things, not to lose my temper with a horse, and not to kick or catch it in the belly when mounting or dismounting.

And whatever the rights and wrongs of the methods of 'disciplining' a horse in those circumstances, the fact is that racing has to be very careful of its image in these politically correct, animal-activist-rife times, and Fallon's behaviour on Sunday was not the image I would be wanting to portray if I were racing's Powers That Be.
 
I agree completely with cruella ,i dont question fallons ability as a jockey but as usual with him he is his own worst enemy.
 
Cruella said:
And whatever the rights and wrongs of the methods of 'disciplining' a horse in those circumstances, the fact is that racing has to be very careful of its image in these politically correct, animal-activist-rife times, and Fallon's behaviour on Sunday was not the image I would be wanting to portray if I were racing's Powers That Be.
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Sorry to be pedantic but isn't doing everything in order to appease the politically correct a bit politcally correct in itself?

From the sounds of it this was not the jockey's finest moment, but if we're going to use the 'image of the sport' as an argument then I would argue Fallon is a great asset to flat racing, especially to mugs like me who contribute to some of the sport via the levy through betting?

Surely he has more effects on horse racing than when just doing something like this? And that should be taken in to consideration when looking at the grand scheme of things?
 
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Fallon is in no way an asset to racing. He's had far far too many indiscretions to be considered an asset.

Dettori is an asset.
 
Long time since he last rode me a winner tbh. I know who I rate the better jockey and I know who gets the blood racing when riding. The sooner Frankie jacks it in for a job in the kitchen the better.

A statesman for people who bet 2 quid once a year Dettori is, not to people who like to try and punt a winner every Saturday IMHO. We'll see who's champion jock next year.
 
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Fallon punched the filly in the gut , so what ? The whole "sport" is cruel and unnatural . Its just a vehicle for businesses to make money .
 
martin said:
Long time since he last rode me a winner tbh. I know who I rate the better jockey and I know who gets the blood racing when riding. The sooner Frankie jacks it in for a job in the kitchen the better.

A statesman for people who bet 2 quid once a year Dettori is, not to people who like to try and punt a winner every Saturday IMHO. We'll see who's champion jock next year.
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This debate is tiresome and boring. I know who's the clean ambassador for racing. You wouldn't catch him punching a horse on live TV, getting an 18 month ban for coke or being taken to the Old Bailey.

Dettori has no aspirations to be Champion Jockey because he is settled down with a family. He is however, still top class as I've argued on here on numerous occasions.
 
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