Kauto Star

Would kauto star have won?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 46.7%

  • No

    Votes: 24 53.3%
  • Total voters
    45
Euronymous said:
The track suits him more. His performance in the KG last year was streets ahead of his second Haydock victory.
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KS struggle last year could be put down to softer conditions. I do not see Haydock's track as an excuse particularly this year when the ground was decent. Definite questions marks over him now.
 
Gearoid said:
Lets not be too quick to write off Kauto Star. He has been a bit flat on his last three runs but if he is o.k after todays run he will take some beating at Kempton and I would be very tempted to take the 6/4.
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Your quite correct do not write him off and the 6/4 for the King George is looking very tasty so thankyou very much I will have a bit of that and so should the rest of you and I will explain why.

Kauto Star's form suggests that on undulating tracks, in competitive races, he is best at short of 3 miles.

Some Stats:

9 runs between 2m4f and 3m, won 8 and 2nd in the other.

He has run three times above 3m and won once, an arguably substandard and slow-paced Gold Cup.

He's 6 from 6 over 3m, five of those on flat tracks the other at Down Royal which imo is only mildly undulating.

6 from 6 right handed in most recent races and 2 from 5 left handed

IMO Kauto is one of the best we have seen but does have his faults, this is seen at Cheltenham in all his runs their he has jumped in total 46 fences falling at 1 and making errors at a further 7 you do the maths. Also see his runs at Aintree and Haydock again more mistakes.

The thing that impresses me about the right handed victories is the manner in which he has won them.

The last time he made a mistake right handed was in the 2006 King George. His three right handed runs since then Kempton, Ascot and Down Royal have been error free and won in a canter.

IMO Kauto will be back to his best with his favourite conditions and trip oh and the small matter of Mr Walsh back on board (Hopefully).

Oh message for Shadow Leader - After Imperial Commander wins the Boylesports he is unlikely to go for King George this year, instead likely be rested for the Letherby and Christopher surprise surprise Cheltenham. He will have an entry for Gold Cup and Ryanair but more likely to go for Ryanair this year unless he show himself to be something exceptional which they do think he will be in time.
 
Thank you very much, AO.

I also happen to agree that we will see a different Kauto Star at Kempton, I too think that on undulating or stiff tracks he isn't seen at his best and suspect there may still be some slight stamina doubts surrounding 3m+ on such tracks.

Kauto Star is still capable of coming back in the KG and doing similar to the field as he did last year I reckon. That won't stop me from looking for a larger priced each way shot or two mind - unless KS keeps drifting then I might have to wade in!
 
Interesting comment made by Paul Nicholls today re the changes at Haydock since last jumps season.

"I doubt if he'll (KS) go to Haydock again. It is not the big, galloping course it used to be - I'm sure a lot of trainers would agree with me. It's totally different. It's like a motorcycle track now and the fences are like you see at a point-to-point."
 
redhead said:
Interesting comment made by Paul Nicholls today re the changes at Haydock since last jumps season.

"I doubt if he'll (KS) go to Haydock again. It is not the big, galloping course it used to be - I'm sure a lot of trainers would agree with me. It's totally different. It's like a motorcycle track now and the fences are like you see at a point-to-point."
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And Kempton is a big galloping track?
 
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Does anyone think Kauto should be tried in blinkers?

I ask only because Nicholls has applied the noseband this season to 'help him concentrate'. If he feels the horse isn't fully focused on his racing, would blinkers make a difference?

I get the feeling that Nicholls isn't quite sure what to make of Kauto anymore.
 
Galileo said:
And Kempton is a bit galloping track?
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Precisely - and if anywhere has fences like a point to point track, it's Kempton. They're sub-standard in size and in how solid (or not!) they are. The hurdles at Kempton are even worse - I swear our schooling hurdles at home are higher. Their fences are certainly only as big as the ones we've got at home, if they even make that.
 
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Shadow Leader said:
Precisely - and if anywhere has fences like a point to point track, it's Kempton. They're sub-standard in size and in how solid (or not!) they are. The hurdles at Kempton are even worse - I swear our schooling hurdles at home are higher. Their fences are certainly only as big as the ones we've got at home, if they even make that.
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I just wish he and others would just stop trying to come up with reasons for his poor run....in terms of finding an excuse to put things right for the future. He has questions marks to answer now...ground, track and jockey are no excuses.
 
Shadow Leader said:
I too think that on undulating or stiff tracks he isn't seen at his best and suspect there may still be some slight stamina doubts surrounding 3m+ on such tracks.
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I don't know what to think of Kauto at the minute tbh, but I don't buy that. The last two renewals of the Betfair Chase were every bit as strong as this year's; why would these questions only manifest themselves now?
 
I personally think that stamina doubts at such sort of trips have always existed but he hasn't been challenged fully at them so they haven't always surfaced.
 
Since Desert Orchid (and even then I would have to check) no horse had a season like THAT one.

We are talking about a generation here. That makes him a great horse
 
"For myself he has always been a good horse, but a great one? No."

That statement would have been more interesting if it had been made 12-18 months ago.

Now, it smacks of after-timing.
 
Shadow Leader said:
I personally think that stamina doubts at such sort of trips have always existed but he hasn't been challenged fully at them so they haven't always surfaced.
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Was he fully challenged at Haydock? They went a rather sedate gallop for much of the race, yet he was still off the bridle far earlier than the previous two years - doesn't smack of stamina doubts to me.

Why would a slowly-run race against the likes of Snoopy Loopy and Tamarinbleu expose these supposed stamina doubts at this stage?

I genuinely don't know what to make of the horse at this point.

To say he's "good but not great" is nonsense IMO, BTW.
 
Which would be crazy given the only reason he was beaten in it was because he faced the best Gold Cup winner of the last 20+ years, beating sure fire stayers such as Neptune and Halcon amongst others in the process.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
What would he have to have done to be a 'great' horse redhead? What's your criteria?
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To take on and beat the best around over any terrain, not with provisos of track, distance etc. His Gold Cup was the slowest-run for ages and also lacked a bit of class.

Sorry for the heresy guys, but he has just never got my pulse racing to either watch or rate.
 
Well he won the 2m Tingle Creek against the best 2 milers and the 3m 2f Gold Cup against the best stayers at the time and he's run 2nd in the 3m 2f Gold Cup against the best stayer of the last 20 years.

On the negative side he was only the second best 3yo Hurdle in France.
 
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