Kicking King Retired

Hamm

Hamm

At the Start
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Good decision, and good to see.

Hard to know how good he was compared with the current bunch.
 
Phew. Like you said hard to compare him to others of recent times but at his very best he was electric to watch. A strong traveller and a very fast jumper.
 
More relieved than sad to hear that. They gave him a fair shot at getting back. His first King George really was something special - damn last fence blunder notwithstanding.
 
Yes, Great news. This is going to sound crazy and doesnt really stand up to logical scrutiny given the higher rated animals that have raced over the past few years but I'm not sure anyone of them could have beaten him in the John Durkan he won before the King George.
 
A favourite chaser of mine and good thing to see him retired. But not in Kautos or Denmans class. There was nothing about him that ever suggested he was
 
I think if you were to plot the distance at which he was best, it would be just short of 3m. He managed to win a weak Gold Cup. With Kauto Star and definitely Denman it would be in excess of 3m.
 
Kauto best over more than 3m? I dont think so myself. I would suggest his perfect distance is just under.

KK lost a few too many races you wouldnt have wanted him to lose and won a few big races that had weakish fields. He was good to watch but didnt quite have the authority over the field that Denman and Kauto have demonstrated so frequently. In fact you could argue that Exotic has stronger form too

Doesnt take anything away from him though. Those are awesome yardsticks
 
clivex said:
Kauto best over more than 3m? I dont think so myself. I would suggest his perfect distance is just under.

KK lost a few too many races you wouldnt have wanted him to lose and won a few big races that had weakish fields. He was good to watch but didnt quite have the authority over the field that Denman and Kauto have demonstrated so frequently. In fact you could argue that Exotic has stronger form too

Doesnt take anything away from him though. Those are awesome yardsticks
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Over 3 miles or less on good ground Kicking King would beat Exotic Dancer more times than not.

What races did Kicking King lose? At his peak he won a Durkan Chase, King George, Cheltenham Gold Cup and Punchestown Cup in the one season straight. He was not right in the following season, even when he won his second King George.
 
Like so many horses before him, the Gold Cup knocked the stuffing out of him. Think only him and WOA have raced after winning the Gold Cup since the turn of the century. Hen Knight had the right idea. Peaked in december 04, and I think it would have taken a very good performance to take him down in the John Durkan. I remembered thinking at the time that Moscow Flyer wouldnt have been able to beat him that day.
 
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clivex said:
A favourite chaser of mine and good thing to see him retired. But not in Kautos or Denmans class. There was nothing about him that ever suggested he was
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I have to strongly disagree with that. The way he tanked over the Queen Mother winner Azertyuiop in his first King George and had that one beat before stamina became an issue suggests he was without question a 180+ chaser.
 
davidjohnson said:
I have to strongly disagree with that. The way he tanked over the Queen Mother winner Azertyuiop in his first King George and had that one beat before stamina became an issue suggests he was without question a 180+ chaser.
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As I've stated before David, I strongly disagree with this assertion.

The farthest Azertyuiop had been over fences prior to the King George was 18f. The Nicholls horse was a patent non-stayer at Kempton, it was only his class that got him to the end of the race, and Kicking King's Chasers and Hurdlers rating of 182 was an abberation, imo.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clivex
A favourite chaser of mine and good thing to see him retired. But not in Kautos or Denmans class. There was nothing about him that ever suggested he was

I have to strongly disagree with that. The way he tanked over the Queen Mother winner Azertyuiop in his first King George and had that one beat before stamina became an issue suggests he was without question a 180+ chaser.
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Is this serious? Azertyioup's only attempt over 3m? In fact he never even went chasing over more than trwo miles if i recall rightly. Azerty was tried and most probably didnt stay (certainly wasnt at his best that day)

it was a 3 length beating over...kingscliff

he was a fine horse but never in a million years dominated fields like Kauto and Denman
 
A 3 length beating of Kingscliff that was value for 8 or 9 but for the silly mistake at the last. And we saw what Kingscliff could do in the following years betfair chase when he fancied it.

Anyway, no point having same argument we've had 3 years ago (particularly if you lot are going to keep coming to the wrong conclusion ;)) and I'll close on this thread by wishing the horse a long and healthy retirement.
 
Just one more point regarding the non-staying Azertyuiop, what happened to Le Roi Miguel, First Gold, Seebald et al who finished just the 24+ lengths behind him.
 
LRM and Seebald - non-stayers.

First Gold - past it.

Does this mean I have official approval to tippex "182" out of my Chasers & Hurdlers, and replace it with 175?? :D
 
Le Roi didn't stay, neither did Seebald and First Gold was 11 (he failed to complete in 5 of his next 8 starts).

That would be the Betfair Chase in which Kingscliff beat Kicking King 9 1/4 lengths?

Kingscliff was an enigma - it's as likely that he ran below form at Kempton and to maximum ability at Haydock as it is vice versa or that both were great runs.
 
Garney said:
I remembered thinking at the time that Moscow Flyer wouldnt have been able to beat him that day.
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In many ways its very sad they never clashed in that King George. Wonder who Geraghty would have sat on. Don't think he has ever said.

For what its worth, I wouldn't have deserted Moscow
 
Was lucky enough to see his first King George...what a performance. Nice to see him retired, he clearly wasn't the force he used to be.
 
All non-stayers, but Azertyuiop a 24l superior non-stayer. Ok. Going into this race was Azertyuiop a 24l better horse than Seebald or Le Roi Miguel?
 
granger said:
For what its worth, I wouldn't have deserted Moscow
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Personally I don't think Barry would have either. But I'm sure he's glad he never had to make the choice. Probably have to wait until his book comes out for the answer if he still wants to pick up the ride on Finger On The Pulse et al.
 
Sometimes wonder if you get chasing DJ :)

When a horse blows up or doesnt stay in these races, the distance beaten is not something to be taken too literally. in fact, i would totally ignore. This isnt a 5f sprint
 
davidjohnson said:
All non-stayers, but Azertyuiop a 24l superior non-stayer. Ok. Going into this race was Azertyuiop a 24l better horse than Seebald or Le Roi Miguel?
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I'd say 24lbs would be more or less bang-on myself - possibly a couple of lbs more in Azerty's favour.
 
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