Kicking King Retired

Form book would suggest he was equally effective from Good through to Soft. Probably Heavy too but he only got to race on it once in a handicap where he put up a decent performance.

Edit: Kingscliff, in relation to SL's comments that is.
 
What sort of rating would you have Kingscliff running to when he won the the Betfair Chase? I'm not here to defend any ratings tbh, particularly those that I had no input in, but everytime I watch that race, I come to the same conlclusion that it was lack of (relative) ability rather than stamina than beat Azertyuiop. There are grounds for arguing that Kingscliff was a little flattered at Kempton, Azertyiop shaped like the second best at the weights on the day, but as I say, his betfair chase run looks low 170's at worst to me.

Regarding the Durkan, you'd have to have a very high opinion of the extremely likeable but below top-class Rathgar Beau to make that Kicking King's best ever run.
 
I can't have it anywhere near 170+ myself, dj.

Beef or Salmon always ran below form when he was travelled to the UK, Kicking King threw a shoe in the race as I recall, and Keen Leader never ran again.

I'd rate it through Beef or Salmon, and call it a 166 or 167 effort - nothing more.
 
Rathgar Beau went on to win 3 of his next four outings by 7,7 and 9 lengths...blatently not running to form in his defeat. He then went on to run to 163 in the Ryanair Chase on ground too fast and over a trip too far.

Kicking King absolutely hammered him 11 lengths with such ease and power and on Beef Or Salmons next start he beat Best Mate in the Lexus.
 
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Kingscliff became awfully difficult to get a tune out of in later years but he was never slow as such in his early days and seemed to find the trip stretching his stamina when an impressive winner of the Foxhunter at Cheltenham. When he won over staying trips, he did so with an injection of pace rather than crushing stamina. The fact that he lost that speed due to affliction is sad, but shouldn't count against the ability of his youth. I was a fan and am happy to have that on record.
 
Beef Or Salmon always ran below form at Cheltenham rather than below form when he came to England. The betfair chase has tended to throw up small fields and testing ground, conditions which have always suited Beef Or Salmon best, and I think his betfair chase runs have been on a par wth anything he's done in Ireland during those corresponding seasons.

The ratings we have for Kingscliff and Kicking King are always going to be inextricably linked, so it's no surprise we disagree by 3lb to 5lb on both. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree seeing as you are too stubborn to admit you're wrong! ;-)
 
davidjohnson said:
Beef Or Salmon always ran below form at Cheltenham rather than below form when he came to England. The betfair chase has tended to throw up small fields and testing ground, conditions which have always suited Beef Or Salmon best, and I think his betfair chase runs have been on a par wth anything he's done in Ireland during those corresponding seasons.

The ratings we have for Kingscliff and Kicking King are always going to be inextricably linked, so it's no surprise we disagree by 3lb to 5lb on both. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree seeing as you are too stubborn to admit you're wrong! ;-)
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Definitely going to disagree on that! Beef Or Salmon's run at Haydock is on bar with his various defeat of Gold Cup winners and horses? No way...
 
I understand that on ratings his John Durkan race falls short, but I dont think that you could be sure how much he had in hand. I think he was in the form of his life that day, something that he showed again in three weeks time. I dont think its too hard to believe that he could have run to a KG figure if Rathgar Beau was as good as Azertyuiop.
 
Not sure if the point I was making was clear. Not saying that Beef or Salmon's Haydock form is a joint-career best effort. Merely that when he was running in that race, that form was on a par with anything he showed at home that corresponding season. And that for me it put an end to the notion he didn't travel well, he just didn't run to form on fast ground on an undulating Cheltenham. 15l in hand of Forget the Past and 19l in hand of a 13yo Native Upmanship is surely no better than 20l+ in hand of Keen Leader et al etc.
 
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Beef or Salmon was favourite for the John Durkan under discussion and after a slow jump at the third, Kicking King moved to the front, gained lengths at every fence and it was soon obvious that there was no way that Beef or Salmon who had beat him at Down Royal could ever get back into the race. I would also think that Rathgar Beau was a better horse then than when beating Moscow Flyer.
 
Kicking King picked up an injury at the 2nd last in that race when landing awkwardly, as Grasshoppper points out, but he was going to beat Kingscliff on the bridle at the time, was he?
 
He looked to be tanking that Rory but quickly came under pressure. I'd like to think it was because of an injury because I had lumped on....
 
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Himself after glory
 
For me it doesn't matter whether Kicking King is as good as Kauto Star, Denman or whoever - it is simply the right decision to retire him.

Enjoy your life good old friend!
 
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rorydelargy said:
True enough ~ you have to go back to Master Oats to find a British bred winner of the race.
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See More just shows the whole stupidity of the "British Bred" "Irish Bred" or "French Bred" system mind as he was born in Ireland while his dam visited an Irish stallion - he spent the first 6 months of his life there, the rest was spent in the UK (read it in an article in Pacemaker years back mind).

Personally don't care if they're Russian bred as long as we get the best vs. the best :)
 
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