Colin Phillips
At the Start
That's just gentle banter for those two...............they're the best of mates really.
Kieren Fallon
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EC1
On a break
there won't be any need for warnings or bannings Trackside, I've had enough of Clive, he should have been banned for this stuff from the other board but got away with it.
to save anymore nonsense I'll withdraw from posting
I've got to much respect for Gareth & co for this to be cropping up all the time.
to save anymore nonsense I'll withdraw from posting
I've got to much respect for Gareth & co for this to be cropping up all the time.
jft2005
Conditional
youve peed me off a few times clive, I remeber when you were mocking & irritating krizon for no apparant reason. chill out ye
O ffs you two leave it out! This board's been so pleasant recently [relatively speaking!] let's keep it that way and not put the mods under pressure to sort out any more personal quarrels. It's so childish to indulge in personal sniping - there's a pm facility for that 
jft2005
Conditional
if any of those accused are found guilty, will they be made to repay betfair customers losses? I dont think so, therefore the charges brought to them shouldnt include the words Defrauding Betfair Customers.
Shadow Leader
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They won't have any bookmakers records. It is illegal to disclose any information about a client's bookmaking account, under the official secrets act I believe, or somesuch similar. Betfair is different, it is an exchange and they made it clear some time ago that they would be willing to divulge information (and on opening an account with BF you are made aware that they will divulge information if needs be and you have to say you accept that before being allowed an account). At the same time, bookmaking firms made it clear that they would not divulge any information as they were not willing to compromise their clients' privacy, which they are entitled to do.
davidjohnson
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Perhaps someone with a far greater knowledge of the legal system than I can advise on whether continued discussion of this subject could lead the forum and it's contributors on contempt of court charges.
EC1
On a break
aye
probably best to pull thread anyway, we will find out the outcome soon enough and any discussion is not going to get anywhere either way.
let the justice system do it's stuff
probably best to pull thread anyway, we will find out the outcome soon enough and any discussion is not going to get anywhere either way.
let the justice system do it's stuff
jft2005
Conditional
quit the paranoia guys, we are not crossing any lines here just discussing details. If i was saying person x is a corrupt bstard because of y then i coudl see your point. but no one is doing that.
Gareth, good point. I wasnt aware of any issue with the Russian Rhythm race, can you shed any light without browning the pants of the paranoia camp?
Gareth, good point. I wasnt aware of any issue with the Russian Rhythm race, can you shed any light without browning the pants of the paranoia camp?
jft2005
Conditional
the first detailed update from the RP;
SIX-TIME champion jockey Kieren Fallon wasinvolved in a plot in which he and two other jockeys agreed to cheat in 27 races to make horses lose, the Old Bailey was told on Monday.
The prosecution alleged there was an agreement not to permit horses to "run on their merits" and that "riding practices would be used if necessary" to interfere with their running.
The horses did not always lose as they were meant to - but when they did, it allowed a dishonest syndicate run by businessman Miles Rodgers to make money on the online betting exchange Betfair, the jury was told.
Fallon, who rode Dylan Thomas to victory in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in France on Sunday, stood in the dock to hear the charge read to the jury this morning.
The six defendants, including jockeys Fergal Lynch and Darren Williams, deny being part of a race-fixing scam.
Fallon, 42, formerly of Newmarket, Cambridgeshire, but now of Tipperary, Ireland, Fergal Lynch, 29, of Boroughbridge, North Yorkshire, and Darren Williams, 29, of Leyburn, North Yorkshire, deny the charges.
Lynch's brother Shaun Lynch, 37, of Belfast, former racing syndicate director Miles Rodgers, 38, of Silkstone, South Yorkshire, and Philip Sherkle, 42, of Tamworth, Staffordshire, have also pleaded not guilty.
They are charged with conspiracy to defraud between December 2002 and September 2004 by interfering with the running of horses to ensure they lost races, defrauding Betfair punters and others putting money on the races.
Rodgers is also accused of concealing the proceeds of crime.
Jonathan Caplan QC, prosecuting, told the court: "This case concerns a serious allegation of fraud.
"It is unusual because it is also concerned with sport and any allegation of fraud in that context obviously undermines the integrity of the sport in question."
He said the 27 races were run on various dates and in different parts of Britain.
Mr Caplan said: "The prosecution case is that there was an unlawful agreement or conspiracy between these defendants and other persons that those races should be fixed.
"The defendants in this case did not fix races to ensure a particular horse won.
"On the contrary, they fixed the races to ensure that the horses in question lost.
"The object of the conspiracy was to wager large amounts of money on aparticular horse to lose in each of those races whilst knowing that the jockey was prepared, if necessary, to cheat by stopping the horse."
Mr Caplan told the court that the betting was organised and conducted by Rodgers, who had numerous accounts in different names with Betfair.
"He was the organiser of this conspiracy and was the one who was most involved," said Mr Caplan.
"On race days, Rodgers had direct contact by mobile telephone with Fergal Lynch and Darren Williams.
"Kieren Fallon wasmore cautious and Rodgers had indirect contact with Fallon using an intermediary, Shaun Lynch, to a lesser extent Fergal Lynch, and latterly, Philip Sherkle."
Mr Caplan said the jury would be invited to look at all the circumstances of the case and "at the pattern which we say clearly emerges from them".
He said that "there was a criminal conspiracy in operation to fix numerous horse races in this country to the detriment of the betting public, and that this conspiracy was only brought to a close by the arrests of these defendants".
Mr Caplan outlined the evidence in what he said was an "important case".
He alleged the men associated with each other, mostly at a time when Rodgers was declared a "disqualified" person by the Disciplinary Panel of the Jockey Club.
Mr Caplan said that "extensive contact" by mobile phone and text message took place on race days.
"The number of calls pre-race and their timing clearly suggests a pattern that was adhered to by eachof the jockeys," he said.
"After Rodgers had been contacted by Fergal Lynch or Williams directly pre-race, or by Fallon indirectly via his intermediary, Rodgers would then begin to use the Betfair accounts to 'lay' the horse in question - that is to bet that the horse would lose.
"The prosecution say that the jockeys were confirming in these pre-race calls that the horse would be stopped."
Mr Caplan told the jury that police had found some text messages which were exchanged. There would also be a chart showing that texts were sent, but not what they said.
Within a short space of time of the calls from the jockeys, Rodgers would bet sizeable sums of money "or lay bets to achieve a small return by comparison", he said.
Bets were usually morethan £100,000 to win about £20,000. Others would be some £60,000 to win about £4,000.
"This indicated a knowledge about the outcome of the race that was not shared by the rest of the market.
"That knowledge was that the jockey concerned was prepared to assist in making the lay bet successful," Mr Caplan said.
The court was told that some of the trainers involved in the races would be giving evidence.
The jury heard that bugged conversations that Rodgers had in August 2004 with Fergal Lynch,Philip Sherkle and others would be produced in evidence.
They were taken from bugs in Rodgers's Mercedes car and in the car park of an Italian restaurant which he owns.
"It was from that car park that Rodgers would frequently make calls on his mobile when he did not wish to be overheard," said Mr Caplan.
An independent Australian racing steward called Ray Murrihy had been asked to watch recordings of races and give his opinion.
"Out of the 27 races, he expressed concerns regarding 13," said Mr Caplan.
"He also says race interference by a jockey is usually very subtle and difficult to detect."
The court would also hear about covert surveillance evidence by police and about documents recovered after Rodgers' arrest.
Mr Caplan assured the seven women and five men on the jury that everything would be explained to them.
"It does not matter whether you know something about horse racing and betting or not," he said.
They would be asked to watch the races and see the surveillance film and photographs.
Although the defendants firmly denied there was a plot, some of the men agreed they had phoned each other for the innocent purpose of passing on tips or betting information.
"Fallon's position appears to be that he would discuss the prospects of his own rides with Fergal and Shaun Lynch but was completely unaware if they passed this information on to Rodgers," said Mr Caplan.
"Fallon says that he also gave some tips to Sherkle, whom he thought was having 'his own couple of quid' on them. He was completely unaware if Sherkle passed these tips of Rodgers."
He added: "Whilst they may well have exchanged tips and information at various times, there was something far more sinister and unlawful going on."
Mr Caplan said it was "inconceivable" that Fallon gave information to the Lynch brothers and to Sherkle and they all passed it on to Rodgers without him knowing.
Mr Caplan said a total of £2.12 million was laid by Rodgers' Betfair accounts on the 27 races between December 2002 and the end of August 2004.
Fallon rode 17 of the races.
"He won for the conspirators 12 times by losing, but he lost for them five times by winning," Mr Caplan said.
Fallon's wins between mid-May and mid-August 2004 cost the conspirators almost half a million pounds, it was alleged.
"According to what Rodgers said to others in the probe, it led to a temporary fall-out between Fallon and Rodgers.
"At the time of the arrests on 1st September 2004, Fallon had made a net loss for the conspiracy of about £338,000."
Mr Caplan added: "But it is important to remember that Rodgers at the time was working with Fergal Lynch and Fallon to get the conspiracy back into profit by concentrating on their rides in 'Handicap' races."
Mr Caplan said of Fallon: "He has been champion jockey in this country on six occasions.
"There can be no question that he is regarded as being one of the leading jockeys in the world."
Fergal Lynchhad ridden in six of the races and only lost the conspirators money once by winning on Familiar Affair.
"He won on that occasion because he was 'playing' three races for the conspirators in one day and, as it turned out, it would have been too dangerous to stop all three horses.
"He earned a net profit for the conspiracy of just over £5,000 by the time of his arrest," said Mr Caplan.
Darren Williams rode four of the races and won for the plotters each time by losing, earning them £55,000, thecourt heard.
Mr Caplan said there were others involved in the plot who were not before the court.
Mr Caplan told the jury that the aim of the conspiracy was for Rodgers to wager "very large amounts of money" on a horse to lose, knowing that the jockey "was prepared to cheat by using tactics on course to stop the horse if it was likely to win".
But he added: "The plan was not foolproof because you could not always stop the horse if, in the particular circumstances, it would look too obvious.
"A horse race is a dynamic event and anything can happen. But the plan worked most of the time."
On Favour, ridden by Fallon, Rodgers wagered £100,000 to win just over £12,000; on Romil Star, ridden by Williams, he bet £92,000 to win £16,000; and on CD Europe, ridden by Fergal Lynch, nearly £36,000 for £2,000, Mr Caplan said.
These bets by Rodgers usually amounted to just over 50% of the Betfair market in that particular race, he told the jury.
"The pattern of contact by mobile phone on race days was nearly always the same, whichever jockey was riding.
"The jockey would call or text Rodgers, or Fallon would call or text the intermediary, who would then almost instantaneously contact Rodgers, and Rodgers would then begin to lay the horseon Betfair.
"This system of contact confirmed that the jockey was ready and able to try and stop the horse. This gave Rodgers the confidence to lay sizeable amounts of money."
SIX-TIME champion jockey Kieren Fallon wasinvolved in a plot in which he and two other jockeys agreed to cheat in 27 races to make horses lose, the Old Bailey was told on Monday.
The prosecution alleged there was an agreement not to permit horses to "run on their merits" and that "riding practices would be used if necessary" to interfere with their running.
The horses did not always lose as they were meant to - but when they did, it allowed a dishonest syndicate run by businessman Miles Rodgers to make money on the online betting exchange Betfair, the jury was told.
Fallon, who rode Dylan Thomas to victory in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in France on Sunday, stood in the dock to hear the charge read to the jury this morning.
The six defendants, including jockeys Fergal Lynch and Darren Williams, deny being part of a race-fixing scam.
Fallon, 42, formerly of Newmarket, Cambridgeshire, but now of Tipperary, Ireland, Fergal Lynch, 29, of Boroughbridge, North Yorkshire, and Darren Williams, 29, of Leyburn, North Yorkshire, deny the charges.
Lynch's brother Shaun Lynch, 37, of Belfast, former racing syndicate director Miles Rodgers, 38, of Silkstone, South Yorkshire, and Philip Sherkle, 42, of Tamworth, Staffordshire, have also pleaded not guilty.
They are charged with conspiracy to defraud between December 2002 and September 2004 by interfering with the running of horses to ensure they lost races, defrauding Betfair punters and others putting money on the races.
Rodgers is also accused of concealing the proceeds of crime.
Jonathan Caplan QC, prosecuting, told the court: "This case concerns a serious allegation of fraud.
"It is unusual because it is also concerned with sport and any allegation of fraud in that context obviously undermines the integrity of the sport in question."
He said the 27 races were run on various dates and in different parts of Britain.
Mr Caplan said: "The prosecution case is that there was an unlawful agreement or conspiracy between these defendants and other persons that those races should be fixed.
"The defendants in this case did not fix races to ensure a particular horse won.
"On the contrary, they fixed the races to ensure that the horses in question lost.
"The object of the conspiracy was to wager large amounts of money on aparticular horse to lose in each of those races whilst knowing that the jockey was prepared, if necessary, to cheat by stopping the horse."
Mr Caplan told the court that the betting was organised and conducted by Rodgers, who had numerous accounts in different names with Betfair.
"He was the organiser of this conspiracy and was the one who was most involved," said Mr Caplan.
"On race days, Rodgers had direct contact by mobile telephone with Fergal Lynch and Darren Williams.
"Kieren Fallon wasmore cautious and Rodgers had indirect contact with Fallon using an intermediary, Shaun Lynch, to a lesser extent Fergal Lynch, and latterly, Philip Sherkle."
Mr Caplan said the jury would be invited to look at all the circumstances of the case and "at the pattern which we say clearly emerges from them".
He said that "there was a criminal conspiracy in operation to fix numerous horse races in this country to the detriment of the betting public, and that this conspiracy was only brought to a close by the arrests of these defendants".
Mr Caplan outlined the evidence in what he said was an "important case".
He alleged the men associated with each other, mostly at a time when Rodgers was declared a "disqualified" person by the Disciplinary Panel of the Jockey Club.
Mr Caplan said that "extensive contact" by mobile phone and text message took place on race days.
"The number of calls pre-race and their timing clearly suggests a pattern that was adhered to by eachof the jockeys," he said.
"After Rodgers had been contacted by Fergal Lynch or Williams directly pre-race, or by Fallon indirectly via his intermediary, Rodgers would then begin to use the Betfair accounts to 'lay' the horse in question - that is to bet that the horse would lose.
"The prosecution say that the jockeys were confirming in these pre-race calls that the horse would be stopped."
Mr Caplan told the jury that police had found some text messages which were exchanged. There would also be a chart showing that texts were sent, but not what they said.
Within a short space of time of the calls from the jockeys, Rodgers would bet sizeable sums of money "or lay bets to achieve a small return by comparison", he said.
Bets were usually morethan £100,000 to win about £20,000. Others would be some £60,000 to win about £4,000.
"This indicated a knowledge about the outcome of the race that was not shared by the rest of the market.
"That knowledge was that the jockey concerned was prepared to assist in making the lay bet successful," Mr Caplan said.
The court was told that some of the trainers involved in the races would be giving evidence.
The jury heard that bugged conversations that Rodgers had in August 2004 with Fergal Lynch,Philip Sherkle and others would be produced in evidence.
They were taken from bugs in Rodgers's Mercedes car and in the car park of an Italian restaurant which he owns.
"It was from that car park that Rodgers would frequently make calls on his mobile when he did not wish to be overheard," said Mr Caplan.
An independent Australian racing steward called Ray Murrihy had been asked to watch recordings of races and give his opinion.
"Out of the 27 races, he expressed concerns regarding 13," said Mr Caplan.
"He also says race interference by a jockey is usually very subtle and difficult to detect."
The court would also hear about covert surveillance evidence by police and about documents recovered after Rodgers' arrest.
Mr Caplan assured the seven women and five men on the jury that everything would be explained to them.
"It does not matter whether you know something about horse racing and betting or not," he said.
They would be asked to watch the races and see the surveillance film and photographs.
Although the defendants firmly denied there was a plot, some of the men agreed they had phoned each other for the innocent purpose of passing on tips or betting information.
"Fallon's position appears to be that he would discuss the prospects of his own rides with Fergal and Shaun Lynch but was completely unaware if they passed this information on to Rodgers," said Mr Caplan.
"Fallon says that he also gave some tips to Sherkle, whom he thought was having 'his own couple of quid' on them. He was completely unaware if Sherkle passed these tips of Rodgers."
He added: "Whilst they may well have exchanged tips and information at various times, there was something far more sinister and unlawful going on."
Mr Caplan said it was "inconceivable" that Fallon gave information to the Lynch brothers and to Sherkle and they all passed it on to Rodgers without him knowing.
Mr Caplan said a total of £2.12 million was laid by Rodgers' Betfair accounts on the 27 races between December 2002 and the end of August 2004.
Fallon rode 17 of the races.
"He won for the conspirators 12 times by losing, but he lost for them five times by winning," Mr Caplan said.
Fallon's wins between mid-May and mid-August 2004 cost the conspirators almost half a million pounds, it was alleged.
"According to what Rodgers said to others in the probe, it led to a temporary fall-out between Fallon and Rodgers.
"At the time of the arrests on 1st September 2004, Fallon had made a net loss for the conspiracy of about £338,000."
Mr Caplan added: "But it is important to remember that Rodgers at the time was working with Fergal Lynch and Fallon to get the conspiracy back into profit by concentrating on their rides in 'Handicap' races."
Mr Caplan said of Fallon: "He has been champion jockey in this country on six occasions.
"There can be no question that he is regarded as being one of the leading jockeys in the world."
Fergal Lynchhad ridden in six of the races and only lost the conspirators money once by winning on Familiar Affair.
"He won on that occasion because he was 'playing' three races for the conspirators in one day and, as it turned out, it would have been too dangerous to stop all three horses.
"He earned a net profit for the conspiracy of just over £5,000 by the time of his arrest," said Mr Caplan.
Darren Williams rode four of the races and won for the plotters each time by losing, earning them £55,000, thecourt heard.
Mr Caplan said there were others involved in the plot who were not before the court.
Mr Caplan told the jury that the aim of the conspiracy was for Rodgers to wager "very large amounts of money" on a horse to lose, knowing that the jockey "was prepared to cheat by using tactics on course to stop the horse if it was likely to win".
But he added: "The plan was not foolproof because you could not always stop the horse if, in the particular circumstances, it would look too obvious.
"A horse race is a dynamic event and anything can happen. But the plan worked most of the time."
On Favour, ridden by Fallon, Rodgers wagered £100,000 to win just over £12,000; on Romil Star, ridden by Williams, he bet £92,000 to win £16,000; and on CD Europe, ridden by Fergal Lynch, nearly £36,000 for £2,000, Mr Caplan said.
These bets by Rodgers usually amounted to just over 50% of the Betfair market in that particular race, he told the jury.
"The pattern of contact by mobile phone on race days was nearly always the same, whichever jockey was riding.
"The jockey would call or text Rodgers, or Fallon would call or text the intermediary, who would then almost instantaneously contact Rodgers, and Rodgers would then begin to lay the horseon Betfair.
"This system of contact confirmed that the jockey was ready and able to try and stop the horse. This gave Rodgers the confidence to lay sizeable amounts of money."
EC1
On a break
"At the time of the arrests on 1st September 2004, Fallon had made a net loss for the conspiracy of about £338,000."
Shadow Leader
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I didn't think that bugs or other means of recording conversations unbeknownst to one or more party[ies] were admissible as evidence in court?
The following is from the RP, not good reading for fallon supporters
KIEREN FALLON sent a "revealing" series of text messages the day after winning a race that he was supposed to have lost as part of a race-fixing plot, a court heard on Monday.
The conspirators behind the plot calculated that his victory on Daring Aim at Newmarket had cost them £138,000, an Old Bailey jury was told.
But Fallon told Philip Sherkle, the alleged middleman in the scheme, how he feared: "They are watching me."
Fallon rode Daring Aim, which was owned by the Queen, to victory in the 6.15pm at Newmarket on July 23 2004.
JonathanCaplan QC, prosecuting, told jurors at Fallon's trial on race-fixing charges that the next day there followed a "revealing set of text messages" between the jockey and Sherkle.
Sherkle was allegedly the intermediary between Fallon and businessman Miles Rodgers, said to be at the centre of the conspiracy.
At 11.08am, Fallon texted to Sherkle: "Only this phone to use."
One minute later, Fallon wrote: "I will call you when I can."
At 12.17pm, Sherkle texted Fallon: "If u don't speak to me now I won't be able to help you."
Then at 12.22pm, Fallon replied: "They will take my licences off me if they drift like that last night. They are watching me."
Ten minutes later he wrote: "I will call you in 10 minutes."
There were two other texts to and from Sherkle found in Fallon's mobile, Mr Caplan told the jury.
One was sent at 7.17pm on July 27, from Sherkle.
"I am away weds morning just text as normal make sure u do please I don't want any grief from them when I get back thanks. hope u have a good week"
An undated message from Fallon to Sherkle read: "no I can't chance it".
KIEREN FALLON sent a "revealing" series of text messages the day after winning a race that he was supposed to have lost as part of a race-fixing plot, a court heard on Monday.
The conspirators behind the plot calculated that his victory on Daring Aim at Newmarket had cost them £138,000, an Old Bailey jury was told.
But Fallon told Philip Sherkle, the alleged middleman in the scheme, how he feared: "They are watching me."
Fallon rode Daring Aim, which was owned by the Queen, to victory in the 6.15pm at Newmarket on July 23 2004.
JonathanCaplan QC, prosecuting, told jurors at Fallon's trial on race-fixing charges that the next day there followed a "revealing set of text messages" between the jockey and Sherkle.
Sherkle was allegedly the intermediary between Fallon and businessman Miles Rodgers, said to be at the centre of the conspiracy.
At 11.08am, Fallon texted to Sherkle: "Only this phone to use."
One minute later, Fallon wrote: "I will call you when I can."
At 12.17pm, Sherkle texted Fallon: "If u don't speak to me now I won't be able to help you."
Then at 12.22pm, Fallon replied: "They will take my licences off me if they drift like that last night. They are watching me."
Ten minutes later he wrote: "I will call you in 10 minutes."
There were two other texts to and from Sherkle found in Fallon's mobile, Mr Caplan told the jury.
One was sent at 7.17pm on July 27, from Sherkle.
"I am away weds morning just text as normal make sure u do please I don't want any grief from them when I get back thanks. hope u have a good week"
An undated message from Fallon to Sherkle read: "no I can't chance it".
jft2005
Conditional
i was of that opinion to SL, is there a legal buff amongst us who can confirm?
Shadow Leader
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Oh, there certainly is!!!
I've only scanned the article but I didn't see any evidence to suggest covert tape recordings/ bugging had taken place.
A phone record is different to bugging a call. They are frequently used in court. Indeed your own phone omits a signal periodically that tells the nearest receiver where you are. Put it next to a playing radio sometime and you'll see what I mean, as periodically the phone sends out a signal and breaks up the reception. In that respect you've bugged yourself, as all phones are personal movement monitoring devices. It was this kind of 'phone record' that was used to help incriminate Ian Huntley for instance, as he had the good sense to take his phone with him when moving and disposing of the bodies, which thus provided a footprint of where he'd been (within about 200 yds) and at what time etc.
The article also suggests that police "found text messages". This again is subtley different to pro-active eavesdropping. Clearly, the implication is that they didn't erase messages, or that they were recoverable once things like computers and phones had been seized.
Well that's my take on it anyway
A phone record is different to bugging a call. They are frequently used in court. Indeed your own phone omits a signal periodically that tells the nearest receiver where you are. Put it next to a playing radio sometime and you'll see what I mean, as periodically the phone sends out a signal and breaks up the reception. In that respect you've bugged yourself, as all phones are personal movement monitoring devices. It was this kind of 'phone record' that was used to help incriminate Ian Huntley for instance, as he had the good sense to take his phone with him when moving and disposing of the bodies, which thus provided a footprint of where he'd been (within about 200 yds) and at what time etc.
The article also suggests that police "found text messages". This again is subtley different to pro-active eavesdropping. Clearly, the implication is that they didn't erase messages, or that they were recoverable once things like computers and phones had been seized.
Well that's my take on it anyway