King George VI Chase

Hamm said:
What a mess de Bromhead has made of his season .. we are half way through January and we still have no idea if the horse properly stays 3 miles or not. He should know that by now, and this phase of the season should be spent planning towards Cheltenham with a suitable race in mind. He risks wasting a season if it turns out he doesn't stay the Gold Cup trip.
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Extremely harsh imo. The horse's pre-Christmas campaign revolved around the King George and the race was postponed. How was De Bromhead meant to foresee that?

For all that I don't agree with the decision to up him in trip at this stage, I reckon you're wide of the mark here.
 
Hamm said:
What a mess de Bromhead has made of his season .. we are half way through January and we still have no idea if the horse properly stays 3 miles or not. He should know that by now, and this phase of the season should be spent planning towards Cheltenham with a suitable race in mind. He risks wasting a season if it turns out he doesn't stay the Gold Cup trip.
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Doesn't stay 3 miles - now stop all the shite!!
 
trackside528 said:
Extremely harsh imo. The horse's pre-Christmas campaign revolved around the King George and the race was postponed. How was De Bromhead meant to foresee that?

For all that I don't agree with the decision to up him in trip at this stage, I reckon you're wide of the mark here.
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A wasted first run, a second run where they doubted his stamina (why run him then) and now they skip the KG even though he's in great form - what are they doing?
 
Hamm said:
A wasted first run, a second run where they doubted his stamina (why run him then) and now they skip the KG even though he's in great form - what are they doing?
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Surely it is pretty clear why they are not travelling the horse over? He has already been a sick horse due to the stress of travelling in the past, travelled over at Christmas and had a "horrendous" journey back with the horse. I suspect he is in great form and they want to keep him that way and travelling him again might well ruin the rest of the season with him.

They did not ride him like a non-stayer at Down Royal - he jumped so poorly that they had little option not to ride him more aggressively.

How exactly was it a wasted first run?
 
Has Henry heard of flying? I presume he is skipping Cheltenham too?

Maybe I need to watch that race again.

He wasn't fit in his first race; the vast majority of Henderson's are ready to run fto; this is endemic in NH racing.
 
Hamm said:
Has Henry heard of flying? I presume he is skipping Cheltenham too?

Maybe I need to watch that race again.

He wasn't fit in his first race; the vast majority of Henderson's are ready to run fto; this is endemic in NH racing.
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Name me any Irish trainer that flys his National Hunt horses or any UK trainer the other way!? I presume he is not skipping Cheltenham, but by then he will have had more time since Christmas (and another run) plus he will be fresher again for Aintree and or Punchestown.

A National Hunt horse needing his first run back...shock horror! As for Henderson..Binocular? Punchestowns?
 
Hamm said:
Has Henry heard of flying? I presume he is skipping Cheltenham too?

Maybe I need to watch that race again.

He wasn't fit in his first race; the vast majority of Henderson's are ready to run fto; this is endemic in NH racing.
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Trolling.
 
I understand it must be on the dear side, but surely if all the trainers clubbed together they'd be able to get a good deal as they'd b putting a lot of business the airlines way.
 
LUKE said:
Trolling.
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What are you on about?

I think he's making a mess of things, and have given reasons why I think this to be the case. Am I not allowed to criticise anyone in Waterford?

Why not fly? It may be more expensive, but as the horse clearly doesn't take well to travelling by boat, as a one off this is more than justifyable, especially when you consider the amount of money the horse has won.

What is wrong with expecting a horse to be fit first time out? Chasers are running only a handful of times now each season, so what is wrong with questioning the merit of wasting one of these runs as a 'pipe-opener'?
 
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Galileo said:
Name me any Irish trainer that flys his National Hunt horses or any UK trainer the other way!? I presume he is not skipping Cheltenham, but by then he will have had more time since Christmas (and another run) plus he will be fresher again for Aintree and or Punchestown.

A National Hunt horse needing his first run back...shock horror! As for Henderson..Binocular? Punchestowns?
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It is best to read what I post properly - I said quite clearly the vast majority of Henderson's horses, not every single one. Punchestowns was apparently plenty fit, just not good enough (Lost to a horse on the bob who will probably end up rated around the 160 mark).

And, I never claimed other NH trainers fly their horses, but what is wrong with thinking outside the box? NH trainers are hardly great at exploring new methods of doing their job to the best of their ability, are they? Mullins aside, how many NH trainers have the amazing forward thinking to run their horses in France, where the prize money is more than worthwhile?
 
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Hamm said:
What are you on about?
What is wrong with expecting a horse to be fit first time out? Chasers are running only a handful of times now each season, so what is wrong with questioning the merit of wasting one of these runs as a 'pipe-opener'?
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It looks like Sizing Europe was being tilted at a 5 race campaign this season. The two early runs, the KG, the GC (or CC) and finally Punchestown. In that context there is nothing wrong with giving him a pipe opener. Your criticism would be valid if he had only planned on giving the horse a Best Mate style campaign.

And I think you and Euronymous underestimate the costs of flying. National Hunt racing is not very lucrative. De Bromhead cannot gain the economies of scale that O'Brien does in shipping his horses; and Euro, with whom would he club together? There aren't that many horses going back and forth and most of those seem perfectly fine with sending them on a boat (Elliot for example).
 
Bar, I never said it was cheap, but said as a one off it is perfectly justifyable - the horse has won 413k, so spending a few thousand getting him across and allowing him to reach his potential is hardly material in the grand scheme, is it?
 
Bar the Bull said:
In that context there is nothing wrong with giving him a pipe opener. /QUOTE]

There is when you plough into him at 4/6 the morning of the race when HdeB says on his site he's fit and ready - only to see him drift like a barge and then get well and truly thumped!!!

:(:(
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Hamm said:
It is best to read what I post properly - I said quite clearly the vast majority of Henderson's horses, not every single one. Punchestowns was apparently plenty fit, just not good enough (Lost to a horse on the bob who will probably end up rated around the 160 mark).
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And deBromhead has had any number of horses to win first time out - including Sizing Europe last season. He has some ready first time out and some are not, just like Henderson (who blamed a lack of a run for the defeat of Binocular and Punchestowns first time out). I could pick those two horses and focus on that just as you have done and say Henderson doesn't have his horses fit first time of asking.
 
I'm sure they will let you have whatever you want unless you are getting into 4 figures territory.
 
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