Lebanon

I hope that you're not including me in that, suny. I knew about ETA, their aims, claims and ambitions before you were born. I was also involved in a business in Barcelona where the man running it made donations to them - not voluntarily either.
 
Now Israel have hit a UN monitor post killing four - an aerial bomb and shelled a rescue team .

Olmert seems determined to follow Sharon in everything including becoming a war criminal
 
I personally despair!!! I took my chances in the early to mids 90's over Aparhteid and that nearly cost me a few times!!! I share your outrage Ardross. Morality and right and wrong I'm afraid don't seem to matter any more.

I've really been reluctant to contribute to political threads....... I'm sorry..... Having said all that (or not as the case is) I wouldn't have done anything different, and am proud of it!!!
 
The US stance is as selfish and counterproductive as usual . The tacit support of the IRA and allowing NORAID to exist when terrorism didn't affect the US was despicable but it suited them.

The bombing of Lebanon is no more justified than if in the 1970s the RAF had bombed Dublin and Cork for the actions of the IRA in Fermanagh. Could you have imagined the American response to that ?
 
Gareth ,many in the UK would have said the same about the Irish Governments of the 1970s, Haughey was suspected as a gun runner - that in no way justifies bombing innocent civilians . Israel has extensively bombed infrastructure in areas where there is no Hezbollah presence . They have bombed the largely Christian areas north of Beirut , Lebanese TV masts , roads etc .
 
I think that is unrealistic. The Lebanese Government has no such power . It took a major effort of will despite the murder of Harriri to rid itself of Syria's troops.

The majority population like Hezbollah is Shia , the Lebanese Army is largely Shia . It would split apart and Lebanon would be back to anarchy and civil war if it took on Hezbollah. Hezbollah would quite probably defeat it even if the Army did not implode .

Furthermore , it is no surprise to see that Israel's attacks have done nothing but cause a massive upsurge in support for Hezbollah as they are seen as the only group defending Lebanon from Israeli aggression. A misguided view but no surprise.
 
Gareth, if the Lebanese government can't or won't stop the terrorists who base themselves there this still does not give Israel the right to kill innocent civilians, both Lebanese and other nationals.

I don't know whether the television news that you watch carried interviews with American citizens who were being rescued from the bombing and taken to Cyprus as a first stage in going home. They were quite vociferous in their condemnation of the israeli bombing and their own country's tacit support for it. The reason was they had seen what was being bombed near their own homes, and here I quote one American "schools, gas stations, convenience stores, farm fields full of cows, apartment blocks - and all in areas which had never housed any Hizbullah fighters."

The secretary-general of the UN has called the Israeli airstrike on a clearly marked UN observer post which killed four UN officials, from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, "apparently deliberate targeting".

Israeli forces over the past year or so have deliberately shot dead western journalists and aid workers.

The atrocities laid at the door of a nation state, remember, not a terrorist organisation, would never be allowed to continue without the support of the USA.

To quote leading commentator Jonathan Freedland "the abominable Bush's animating idea has been that the peoples of the Middle East can be bombed into democracy and terrorised into moderation."
 
Gareth the problem is that this ignores the economic regeneration and vats improvement in the lives of most in the Lebanon until the Israeli action. If the Lebanese army could not control Hezbollah before they certainly can't now with every Israeli bomb acting as a recruiting sergeant . And I fear not only of Hezbollah fighters but for Islamic extremist terrorists across the world as the US connives and the UK wrings its hands
 


To be honest, I think much of the blame lies squarely on the Lebanese government for either refusing or being unable to reign in Hezbollah. It's not surprising that Israel see their inaction as tacit support.

the lebenese goverment is to weak and the isrealis know that the blame lies with iran and syria they are the countries pulling hezabellehs strings
 
Yes, and the US administration has closed the door on any meaningful diplomatic approach to a resolution by refusing to have any dealings whatsoever with either country.
 
#with syrias eye firmly on lebanese territory and irans desire and wishes to be the superpower of the middle east and dont forget the iranians are muslim but are not arabs and have always considered themselves superior to their arab neighbours

what piece of paper or fine words by the countries of the united nation whom are more concerned about oil supplies than any justice do you think will keep iran or syria to a peace agreement rather than pursing their long held territorial, political and religous ambitions

after all the countries clamouring for resolutions peace pacts and whatever have sat in absolute silence over the years and watched the demolition of a lebanese state by its arab neighbours most notably syria which even as long ago as biblical days had its beady eye on phoneician territroy

perhaps and just perhaps if the un had ever shown any even handedness in the middle east rather than being a bunch of countries with their own agenda isreal and the states may just have had some patience with it

or is the suggestion we have a peace pact with one side obeying it and the other side continuing to launch their russian built rockets at it a valid one

i dont think any other country would accept such a state of affairs

and instead of blaming amercia all the time

surely iran and syria are quite capable of making at least a gesture to talks by halting hezbollahs actions to enable talks to go ahead as a sign of good will willingness or anything you would like to call it
 
"what piece of paper or fine words by the countries of the united nation whom are more concerned about oil supplies than any justice"
More concerned with oil supplies? What, unlike the USA and its oilmen led administration?

"perhaps and just perhaps if the un had ever shown any even handedness in the middle east rather than being a bunch of countries with their own agenda"
What, unlike the USA which is really even-handed in its Middle East policy?

"isreal and the states may just have had some patience with the UN"
Ah, here you have hid on a point - you see, like those two countries themselves, it has slipped your mind that they are supposed to be a part of the UN!

"and instead of blaming amercia all the time"
I don't know how many times I have to make this clear - it is not America that I hold responsible, it is this corrupt, self-serving, God-bothering, current administration.

Under Clinton,and even under the present president's father, there were efforts to be a plausible mediator. This current president, inexperienced in foreign policy (and virtually everything else) listened to Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz and others and in the first week of his presidency, advised to distance himself from the policies of his predecessor, abandoned the negotiations that were tantalisingly close to achieving something (similarly the negotiations with North Korea to which his own secretary of state, Colin Powell, was committed).

Syria and Iran, as far as the Bush administration is concerned, are to be ignored as spawn of the devil and cast into limbo. No lines of communication are allowed to exist.

I well recall debate on the previous forum when our government first mooted that it was to open talks with Sinn Fein/IRA. There were people who couldn't wait to post that democratically elected governments should never talk with terrorists. As I remember, my response was - so to whom should they talk in an attempt to achieve peace in Ireland? The Brighouse & Rastrick Brass Band?
 
I personally feel that Israel has a right to do what they are doing backed by the U-K and USA governments. I am not condoning the loss of innocent lives either. (And it’s as we have witnessed in countless offensives the innocent get killed, sad! But a fact of life)

IRAN is the threat to world peace, with them developing the nuclear bomb, its this that’s at the bottom of the conflict and why the USA don’t want a cease fire.

With Hezbollah and all the other Middle East terrorist being backed by both IRAN & SYRIA it was inevitable that a conflict would have been commenced in the short term.

Hezbollah chose Lebanon in which to base their H-Q having 17 representatives in the Lebanese government and based mainly to the north east of Lebanon hence the bombing of that area, as well as the south of the country, in order for them(ISRAEL) to create a buffer zone and stop regular incursions in to northern Israel and fear/threat that these north Israelites are under on a daily basis from rockets sent by Hezbollah.

I think the U.S.A. are trying to draw IRAN and SYRIA into this conflict as an excuse to getting them around a conference table or a possibility of them being drawn into the conflict in order to stop them developing the nuclear weapons(by force if need be) they are supposed to be developing? Conjecture? Yes! On my part but one needs to take all consequences and permutations into possible consideration?

Not forgetting! We are all very aware that the bombs and planes are loaded and ready to go on an airfield close to Cirencester (FAIRFORD?) That was spoken enough about on here in MARCH! If you remember Harry!! Starting the thread and me endorsing the fact that a huge arms shipment came into Newport docks in March also and was shipped to this airdrome.
 
I see the Israelis are now mowing down UN peacekeepers, ignoring warnings that they were endangering the peacekeepers.
 
I'm surprised that, being so much in the pocket of the Yanks, the Izzies haven't yet blown themselves up in error. The US military has a proud record of killing at least a few of its own, and other friendly forces, every time it storms off with cries of 'git them feckin' ragheads!' Still time, though, still plenty of time...
 
BBC reports

Israel has shown no signs of easing its military campaign against Lebanon with air strikes on a Lebanese army base and a radio relay station, north of Beirut.

What do they have to do with Hezbollah ?
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Jul 27 2006, 09:11 AM
BBC reports

Israel has shown no signs of easing its military campaign against Lebanon with air strikes on a Lebanese army base and a radio relay station, north of Beirut.

What do they have to do with Hezbollah ?
I was asking myself the same thing. If Israel wants the Lebanese to sort out Hezbollah, then this doesn't really help. I suppose Israel would argue that they have given up trying to get them to clamp down on Hezbollah, but I still don't see why they are a legitimate target.

From what I can see the Israelis are very deliberately dismantling and destroying the Lebanese infrastructure in general.
 
Here are the results of the vote at the Rome summit:

Those for an immediate ceasefire - Canada, Cyprus, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Jordan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Turkey, UN

Those against an immediate ceasefire - USA, UK

Result - no immediate ceasefire
 
I don't often agree with Tebbit but his description of the Bush-Blair relationship as marsupial is spot on .
 
"Marsupial" - that is absolutely terrific! Not even a poodle, now, but a Bush-baby! What on earth is WRONG with this government? Apart from probably being corrupt to the core. Blair isn't a member of Bilderberg, too, is he? <_<
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Jul 27 2006, 01:19 PM
Here are the results of the vote at the Rome summit:

Those for an immediate ceasefire - Canada, Cyprus, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Jordan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Turkey, UN

Those against an immediate ceasefire - USA, UK

Result - no immediate ceasefire
Spain is the key here.
Our prime minister will win the peace nobel prize very soon.

The Civilisation alliance is the greatest invent since the telephone!!!!
:lol:


Talking seriously



What is happening here is a clear sign of how corrupt and inept is the UN,Koffi Annan is the worst and most corrupt secretary of the organasation ever.



Every war has very sad stories, but the way Siria and Iran are behaving here is the clear sign that they are testing USA and GB.
Iran is using the conflict the devise the attention to their nuclear program.




About Bush, I dont like him very much but Clinton would be behaving in very similar way,lets not forget Clinton bombed Irak too, he also was in Somalia, he went to Yugoslavia war against the UN resolutions.....if he would have been the president in the 11S, I can not see him behaving differently than Bush is doing.


We, europeans placed israel in 1948 were they are and now some left winged people in Europe are siding with muslins radicals.
 
I think Zapatero is great - wish we had a real socialist PM . I understand he is very popular too according to a profile I read in the Times on Saturday .
 
I don't know about Spain, suny, but "some left wing people" here in the UK, according to an ICM poll yesterday amounts to 63% of the population!
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Jul 27 2006, 06:02 PM
I think Zapatero is great - wish we had a real socialist PM . I understand he is very popular too according to a profile I read in the Times on Saturday .
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