Lebanon

The Israeli justice minister, Haim Ramon, who is a close ally of the prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said "We received yesterday at the Rome conference permission from the world ... to continue the operation, this war, until Hizbullah won't be located in Lebanon and until it is disarmed."

I wonder from which meeting he received reports?
 
Originally posted by sunybay+Jul 27 2006, 06:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sunybay @ Jul 27 2006, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Ardross@Jul 27 2006, 06:02 PM
I think Zapatero is great - wish we had a real socialist PM . I understand he is very popular too according to a profile I read in the Times on Saturday .
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
Knew you would like that :lol:
 
So, suny, what's your view on that one little incident yesterday when the Israeli military totally ignored repeated warnings and bombed the clearly marked UN observer post is southern Lebanon?

The Israelis bombed the UN site for six hours altogether, despite the UN deputy general secretary Mark Malloch-Brown making several calls to the israeli commandto protest at the shelling and to ask for it to stop.

In addition, a UN officer, an Irishman, warned the Israelis six times. Reportedly, Israel promised to halt the firing.

The post was eventually destroyed by a sophisticated precision-guided aerial bomb. An Austrian, a Canadian, a Chinese and a Finn, all unarmed UN observers, were killed.
 
It couldn't possibly be because despite their professed willingness to have a UN force they were seeking to put prospective peace keepers off due to the risks could it

Sadly , I fear it could.
 
Me thinkz you be right Ardross.

Curiously Israel are using the Rome summit to claim the world supports them today!!! I'm sure one of the papers (might have been the Independent?) ran a headline photograph recently involving the flags of the UN with a for and against split, if some one could dig it out?

And just for the record Suny, I think you'll find Clinton inheritted Somalia? It was one of the last thinks GB1 did before leaving office.

Apart from anything, history has taught us time and time again that bombing/ killing civilian populations just acts as a recruiting sargeant for the radicals. Enraged and displaced populations who would not otherwise have fallen into the craddle of radicals, flock to them as a result of the inevitable vacuum that such acts create.

What the Israelis are doing is not just morally reprehensible, its also poor tactically. In much the same way as the Americans have got themselves embroilled in a war against a non radical secular state in Iraq. Indeed the only toe hold that Bin Liner ever got in Iraq was a group called Ansar Al Islam who were only active in the no fly zone of the North where Saddam couldn't get at them. Lets not forget Saddam had more to lose than anyone in pre war Iraq from the development of any radical Islamist movement. Is it really any coincidence that when Iran over threw the Shah, and Khomeni returned from exile, that within less than 12 months Saddam had declared on them? If there was a natural ally in the region for the west at face value, it was Iraq. Instead we've got resources tied down there refereeing a civil war, whilst simultaneously providing target practice and performing the role of chief recruiter for an emerging generation of radicals who would otherwise have been kept in check.

Its no great secret either that the Lebanese government is incapable of sorting out Hezbollah. These are well trained, very experienced and committed fighters. They may not wear traditional western fatigues and look like conventional soldiers, but increasingly they are proving every bit a formidable match. Indeed the Israelis are not coming off terribly well against them in direct combat, (forget the overall body count figures, they include civilians) and haven't got a terribly good record over the years either where Hezbollah's concerned. Our own troops of 3 Para currently stationed in Southern Afghanistan, have given various reports to newspaper correspondents where the respect they're developing for the enemy is all to evident. I'm sure the Lebanese would love to be rid of Hezbollah, but they have effectively hijacked the country, and the Government is incapable of riding itself of what is after all a formidable/ superior force
 
What is happening here is a clear sign of how corrupt and inept is the UN,Koffi Annan is the worst and most corrupt secretary of the organasation ever.
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The UN has become an irrelevance. It should be disbanded. It is dangerous to have an organisation which exists with the presupposition of being able to have power, or at least influence, over its member states when it patently does not.
 
There were two letters in the Irish Times yesterday that said a lot.The first was from an Israeli citizen hailing the professionalism of the Israeli Air Force for limiting civillian casualties to 400 despite flying thousands of sorties.
The second letter was about a Canadian geographer who was been effectively interned in Israel without access to legal assistance or anyone else for that matter.
I think both those letters say a lot about the state of Israel and its people.
 
In the thousands of sorties that the IAF has flown in the past two weeks, barely 400 people have been killed. That is an incredibly small number and testimony to the accuracy of the IDF's targeting! If they wanted to cause civilian casualties, as some suggest, then by now there would be thousands and they wouldn't be dropping warning flyers on the population. Also, the targets of the IDF are not in the Christian, Sunni Muslim or Druse areas of Lebanon. These are essentially untouched by the fighting.

In the final analysis you have a choice. Either you choose the Shia Muslim extremist terrorists of Hizbullah or the democratic government of Israel. Who would you prefer to win? It may soon affect you where you live. - Yours, etc,

JACK COHEN, Netanya, Israel.


Madam, - We write to express our concern as part of a growing international campaign regarding the fate of a respected academic colleague and scholar, Prof Ghazi Falah, from the geography department at the University of Akron in Ohio, USA.

Prof Falah was arrested in Haifa, Israel, on Saturday July 8th for allegedly taking photographs at a holiday resort. Since then, he has remained detained without charge and without access to legal counsel.

On July 17th, the authorities denied his access to a lawyer for a further 10 days.

Prof Falah, who holds dual Arab-Israeli and Canadian citizenship, is a highly respected political geographer who has been publishing his research in leading international academic journals for nearly two decades. Like many other academic geographers, he regularly took photographs of everyday settings during his travels for use in his research and teaching. His arrest has far-reaching implications for the broader academic community and particularly for those researching and writing from places of conflict.

Since being arrested, Ghazi has been refused access to a lawyer, consulate staff, and family or other visitors, all of which is in defiance of Articles 9, 10 and 11 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

We call upon the Israeli authorities to respect basic legal and human rights by allowing Prof Falah legal, consular and family visits immediately. - Yours, etc,

Dr JOHN MORRISSEY, Dr PATRICK COLLINS, STEPHANIE EGAN, Dr FRANCES FAHY, SHARON LEAHY, CAROLINE McHUGH, RICO SANTIAGO, Prof ULF STROHMAYER, Department of Geography, NUI Galway; Prof ROB KITCHIN, Department of Geography, NUI Maynooth; Prof JAMES ANDERSON, Prof FREDERICK BOAL, GEMMA CATNEY, Dr DIARMID FINNEGAN, Dr CHRISTOPHER LLOYD, Dr STEPHEN ROYLE, School of Geography, Queen's University Belfast; Dr PADRAIG CARMODY, Department of Geography, St Patrick's College, Drumcondra 9; HOUNAIDA ABI HAIDAR, KATIA ATTUYER, PAULA BRUDELL, Dr ANNA DAVIES, RORY HEARNE, Dr FREEA ITZSTEIN-DAVEY, JULIUS KOMOLAFE, Dr ANNALEIGH MARGEY, Dr IRENE STRATI, Dr CHARLES TRAVIS, JEAN WILSON, Department of Geography, Trinity College Dublin; Dr DARIUS BARTLETT, Dr FIONA CAWKWELL, Dr DENIS LINEHAN, Dr DAVID NALLY, Dr EILEEN O'ROURKE, Dr COLIN SAGE, ROSE WALSH Dr ALLEN WHITE, Department of Geography, University College Cork; Dr MARY GILMARTIN, Dr NIAMH MOORE, School of Geography, Planning and Environmental Policy, University College Dublin; Dr PATRICK O'CONNOR, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick; Dr PAUL DUNLOP, SARA McDOWELL, School of Environmental Sciences, University of Ulster.
 
Thanks for putting those up, LUKE. Very interesting insights into the Israeli mindset. I wish we could hear from those Israelis who are just as opposed to what their government is doing, though, as we did when the land grabs and the Great Wall were being made.

Warbler: you have won tonight's Best Topical Pun award! And just when we thought we'd have turban you.
 
I can explain if you like.

The most current and active US foreign policy document is the Book of Revelations.
 
Originally posted by krizon@Jul 28 2006, 11:26 AM
I wish we could hear from those Israelis who are just as opposed to what their government is doing, though, as we did when the land grabs and the Great Wall were being made.
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Those of us who take the Guardian have been doing so via the letters page.
 
On Newsnight tonight a fomer UN worker (a Brit) who served as a peacekeeper in Lebanon 10 or so years ago said that it was just about impossible that the bombing of the UN compound was an accident. He was very certain that it was a deliberate move to take out a compound that would otherwise have been used by Hizbollah as cover.
 
It was quite openly discussed by the Beeb's reporters, Homer, especially on Beeb 24, and there were plainly something like ELEVEN distress calls from the UN staff after the first bomb nearby, to the Israelis, to say to please stop attacking them as they were the UN. Obviously, if listeners to military chatter heard the calls (since the Israelis aren't going to admit they ignored so many), the story's true, and the Israelis bashed the place to bits, regardless. I mean, what's anyone going to do? Nobody's going to retaliate from the UN, and they know it. The USA is firmly behind them, and it appears we're firmly alongside the USA (well, our Bush-baby is), so neither of us are going to slap them on the wrist. Disgraceful, and another war crime - not that anyone will be brought to trial.
 
:angy: :angy: :angy: :angy:

How many more innocent children have to die before Bush's poodle barks

Our Prime Minister is a disgrace in the Neville Chamberlain class

from the BBC

Printable version
Dozens killed in Lebanon air raid

Lebanon described the bombing as a "heinous crime"

Enlarge Image
More than 54 civilians, at least 34 of them children, have been killed in a town in south Lebanon in the deadliest Israeli strike of the conflict so far.

Displaced families had been sheltering in the basement of a house in Qana, which was crushed after a direct hit.

Lebanon's prime minister denounced "Israeli war criminals" and cancelled talks with the US secretary of state.

Israel said it regretted the incident - but added that civilians had been warned to flee the village.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel would "continue to act with no hesitation against Hezbollah" which has been firing rockets into Israel from southern Lebanon.

He is reported to have told US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that Israel needs 10-14 days to press its offensive.

Attack condemned

Hundreds of Lebanese protesters staged a violent demonstration, ransacking the UN headquarters in Beirut, chanting slogans against the US and Israel and in support of the Hezbollah militants.

Lebanese soldiers are protecting the building.

Several countries have condemned the attack and renewed their calls for an immediate ceasefire - opposed by Israel, the US and UK.


May God have mercy on the children. They came here to escape the fighting
Qana survivor

In pictures: Qana strike
Carnage at Qana

At an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council, Secretary General Kofi Annan urged members to strongly condemn the Qana attack and to put aside differences to call for an immediate ceasefire.

Lebanon's health minister now says about 750 people - mainly civilians - have been killed by Israeli action in Lebanon since their operations began 19 days ago.

Hezbollah has vowed to retaliate after the Qana attack. Several Katyusha rockets hit the border town of Kiryat Shemona on Sunday, wounding several people, in what residents described as the worst day so far.

A total of 51 Israelis, including at least 18 civilians, have been killed in the conflict, sparked by Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid on 12 July.

Intense bombing

Witnesses said the early-morning strike hit the three-storey building where families had been sheltering in the basement, crushing it sideways into an enormous crater.

One survivor said the "bombing was so intense that no-one could move".

Elderly, women and children were among those killed in the raid, which wrought destruction over a wide area.


Map

Mid-East crisis map
Qana: Echo of 1996 attack

Reporters spoke of survivors screaming in grief and anger, as some scrabbled through the debris with bare hands.

"We want this to stop," a villager shouted.

"May God have mercy on the children. They came here to escape the fighting."

Rescuers found the experience too much to cope with.

Our correspondent saw a Red Cross rescue worker sitting in the sunshine just sobbing, overcome with emotion.

Israel said the Shia militant group was responsible for the Qana strike, because it used the town to launch rockets.

The BBC's Jim Muir, in Qana, says many did not have the means - or were too frightened - to flee.

'Heinous crime'

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora denounced Israel's "heinous crimes against civilians", and said there was "no room on this sad morning" for talks until Israel had halted its attacks.

He called for an "immediate, unconditional ceasefire", and praised Hezbollah militants who were "sacrificing their lives for Lebanon's independence".


HAVE YOUR SAY
Surely the lives of the innocent should take precedence
Nikki, Warwickshire

Send us your views

The US secretary of state said she was "deeply saddened by the terrible loss of innocent life.

"We are also pushing for an urgent end to the current hostilities, but the views of the parties on how to achieve this are different," she said.

US officials say Ms Rice is to return to Washington on Monday to begin drafting a UN resolution aimed at ending the fighting.

Correspondents say the town holds bitter memories for the Lebanese.

Qana was the site of an Israeli bombing of a UN base in 1996 that killed more than 100 people sheltering there during Israel's "Grapes of Wrath" offensive, which was also aimed at destroying Hezbollah.
 
The problem the UN has is the US . It does not respect it as it reflects world opinion that largely disagrees with the US - what the world desperately needs is another Democratic president and the eclipse of the neo cons.

To suggest the Un is an irrelevance is in essence to say that the world is an irrelevance and we should all bow down to the US and China . It also ignores the tremendous good work it does all over the world .

A world without the UN is a world like the 1930s no thanks
 
The Israeli army (having destroyed the infrastructure, thus imprisoning the populace) apparently told the locals to leave the area before butchering the mainly women and children.

And still mongrel Bush and poodle Blair express their regret but let the butchers go about their bloody work unchecked.
 
Originally posted by Ardross@Jul 30 2006, 07:24 PM
The problem the UN has is the US .
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Yes
they supply almost half of the money for it and their vote has the same weight of any of the other big 4.


Also the vote of Cypres has the same weight of Germany.


This is an absolute joke, the only reason this exits is to pay very big salaries to many inept well connected people to live life lives like millioners and have a laugh of us.
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Jul 30 2006, 07:46 PM

OK, Melendez and suny, with what would you replace it?
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It is impossible to create anything to rule the world.


The interests between many countries are opposite and the only end is colusion.


about the UN
it is a joke they tried us to believe it is a democracy and there are more countries ruled by dictators and democratic countries.


Some years ago ,Libia was the one selected to respect the human rights.
 
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