Lester Piggott

Grey said:
badpianoplayer, that is certainly a side of Lester Piggott I didn't know about before, but it sounds plausible. Good on him.

At the same time, I could imagine him helping you to make your way as a jockey and then not hesitating to jock you off if some day you had ever got to ride the Derby favourite. For him there would have been no contradiction in that.
Click to expand...

A lot is being made of this jocking off ..was Lester making these decisions?..I think all he did was make himself available to the connections of the horse he believed had the best chance...it was the connections who were disloyal..not Lester..he just made himself available

In those days..if you had a horse in a big race..and LP said he would like to ride your horse...you would have been a fool not to take him up

LP didn't make anyone put him on a horse..his ability persuaded connections where their best chance lay..not LP's fault for being brilliant and in demand :)
 
Last edited:
Tetley, if your last post is directed at me, I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

I don't question what badpianoplayer tells us about how Lester helped him get a start. I am saying it is a side to Lester I didn't know about before, it is very interesting information, and as I said above, good on him.

The other thing I was trying to say was that I can imagine Lester thinking that just because he helped somebody get a start as a jockey would be no reason to go any easier on that person than any other jockey he was competing against.
 
EC1, Lester used to campaign to get the ride on horses he wanted to ride. He was no wallflower standing around waiting to get picked.
 
I think the best bit about both jocks (LP & KF) is that they don't say very much and that is how they hold interest. Whether there is or not anything to know it always gives the impression of mystic and secrecy and is their commercialism. To a certain extent both jocks got bombarded with press attention when a court case was added for good measure. To be true it would seem in consideration of both Lester and Fallon's legal cases, that surely some legal stunt was carried out to get Fallon off (or media to get him in!), as Lester who is and was by far the greater jock of the two, went to jail (but then it was the taxman and not Betfair). It has to be questioned as to why Fallon was arrested in the first place. Is it a case of he wanted to be so like Lester that he pretended to be involved in the Betfair case, but really wasn't and could then still hold something of similar or equal status, as Lester is the man they will all find hard to equal, it could be a strong possibility!!!!!!!!.:confused:

The thing is Lester and now Henderson appear to have shown admiral qualities by taking it on the chin. I wonder what Fallon should be taking on the chin, what did he have and on who, that got him out of trouble? Maybe we will never know! Others involved have and are now still facing disciplinary yet after Fallon's little chat with the BHA, an article described him as "having spoken frankly" (I did not know that Fallon was bi lingual and spoke frankly:whistle:) What about would be more to the point, but I don't recall what that was(Please help if you know:confused:) And what happened to Sherkle, the other guy? I wouldn't have said that even though some races in the trial did not appear to be pulled, others did have to be questioned.

And the moral of the story - Everytime Lester or court trials get a mention Fallon will always hold his spot!!!!!!!

I will quote a trainer "I was a witness in the Betfair trial and it was the biggest farce I ever saw, but I suppose it got some jockeys in the paper"

MATHMATICAL THEORY - Lester + cannot be beaten + genuine legend = all the rest are just fakes.

I salute you Mr Piggot You stand strong and alone, you are a true legend.:D
 
Last edited:
Grey said:
Tetley, if your last post is directed at me, I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

I don't question what badpianoplayer tells us about how Lester helped him get a start. I am saying it is a side to Lester I didn't know about before, it is very interesting information, and as I said above, good on him.

The other thing I was trying to say was that I can imagine Lester thinking that just because he helped somebody get a start as a jockey would be no reason to go any easier on that person than any other jockey he was competing against.
Click to expand...

I don't think Lester took any prisoners Grey..yes ruthless..but you have to look at what racing was like when LP first started riding..it was a different game to today..some really rough games were played on the track...he had to toughen up as a 14/15 year old to survive..that to me could explain his ruthlessness in later life..he wouldn't have had it easy when he were a kid amongst the jocks of those days. LP didn't even take crap off Gordon Richards..reverred by other jocks...old GR used to get other jockeys letting him have easy starts etc..LP never gave him any respect at all....because he believed he were a better jock...which he was.
 
Last edited:
Grey said:
EC1, Lester used to campaign to get the ride on horses he wanted to ride. He was no wallflower standing around waiting to get picked.
Click to expand...

connections still could have stayed loyal to their jockey though...being keen to win isn't really a fault ..imo..owners and trainers being disloyal to their riders are more at fault than Lester in that situation imo.

at the end of the day..why did other jocks get jocked off?
 
Grey said:
EC1, Lester used to campaign to get the ride on horses he wanted to ride. He was no wallflower standing around waiting to get picked.
Click to expand...

I persoanaly would be glad to lern that Lester wanted to ride my horse, now of corse we have agents on a cut, 2 steps forward one step back.
as that's money going out of Racing unless they have come through it.
 
I think its valid that he was ruthless and self centred, but put in his situation can anyone say..hand on heart ...that if they had chance to ride a big race winner..using your reputation/ability as a bargaining tool...you wouldn't ring people to get that ride.

How many jockeys in the history of the game have been good enough for connections to jock off a regular rider for?
 
Grey said:
Tetley, if your last post is directed at me, I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

I don't question what badpianoplayer tells us about how Lester helped him get a start. I am saying it is a side to Lester I didn't know about before, it is very interesting information, and as I said above, good on him.

The other thing I was trying to say was that I can imagine Lester thinking that just because he helped somebody get a start as a jockey would be no reason to go any easier on that person than any other jockey he was competing against.
Click to expand...

Yes Grey it was aimed at you and I will reitterate, I don't IMAGINE Lester doing this, that or anything else. If I was to post on here what sort of person he was I would need to know him personally.
 
I think Grey used the word Imagine in referring to how LP would treat someone he helped when that person was in direct competition with him later in life..he wasn't doubting anything
 
Coming back to human condition stuff...the way we like some people and don't like others

I always find it strange when I see the same behaviour from two people..from one I find it a negative but accept it from someone else.

For example..Brian Cloughs bigheadedness..I actually loved it..but if someone else did it..it would wrankle me and be a negative...and I can't really explain why.

LP's ruthlessnes doesn't offend me..but it might do if someone else was like that..obviously his ruthlessnes does put others off in the same way.

Its funny how we all react differently to the same thing..depending on who it is doing it

just thought I'd throw that in ;)
 
Last edited:
But there isn't more to a professional life as a jockey than winning - that's the whole purpose of being one! Don't forget that Lester's perceived harsh treatment of some horses was in an era when 'whip abuse' wasn't much of an issue, and jockeys weren't limited to the number of smacks they could deliver in their efforts. In that, he was no different to the American jockeys who worked their whips devastatingly fast from shoulder to rear-end, and by adopting his fast whip delivery style, he no doubt galvanised a few more than other jockeys who were delivering one crack every four paces.

He also had beautiful balance and great hands, both big assets when it came to steadying the unruly or stopping them getting like that in the first place. He began race-riding at something like 13, I think, having been riding since he was a small child, thus bringing years of experience to the table ahead of jockeys who didn't take up the profession until their teens.

Most eras throw up the renegade rider - the USA gave us the inimitable Tod Sloane with his "monkey up a stick" forward position, putting the rider's weight through the horse's shoulder, rather than across its back - while our chaps were still riding with long stirrups and jouncing around in the saddle like novice riders. Lester showed us that you can, in fact, play waiting tactics successfully, and that horses didn't just have to be shoved out front in the hopes they'd win. His elegance in timing, in knowing just when a horse could be best produced, was his main legacy. As far as whether some of the horses he rode weren't always produced to win - why would that practice be any different to now? There are plenty of horses not being pushed to win, for any variety of reasons, many of them not sinister.

I tried to mimic Lester when I was busy riding my 'racehorse' in our back garden - a horizontal oil barrel with a piece of sacking over it, with wire 'stirrups'. I deployed my whip with gusto and won every race - thank you, Lester! I also had the biggest crush on him when I was 12, imagining us running a racing stable together in wedded bliss... sadly, Miss Haggas cruelly wrenched that pipedream from me!

That's a very nice personal story, badpiano - it's always interesting to get the human interest side to famous people in racing.
 
Indeed K , Let's consider whether El Gran Senor or Dancing Brave would have lost their Derbies with Lester on board - not in a million years I would suggest .
 
A friend of mine was close to Lester when he met up with Willy at Royal Ascot, they raced each other back in the day but now not only do they seem to be great freind but Lester gave willy a winner great the things you can over-here when one party is a tad deaf.
 
tetley said:
That sums it up anyone can IMAGINE anything they want. Sounds plausible wtf, why would someone come on here, speak from personal experience and lie?
Click to expand...

With no disrespect to badpianoplayer intended - this is an internet forum and cyberspace it is possible to make up any amount of crap you like and nobody would know any different. While I'm not suggesting he/she has in this case, it's worth bearing in mind. Just because you might not do it, doesn't mean others don't.

Or maybe that's just on the pharmacy forum :confused:
 
Irish Stamp said:
Geoff Mullins is a winner and so are CJ Hunter, Barry Bonds, Marion Jones, Kelli White, Marco Pantani, Tommy Simpson - all are winners but at what cost?

There's far more to life than winning and conducting life in a decent manner is far more important IMHO.
Click to expand...


There is indeed and I believe LP is a decent man and a great jockey, even better than W. Carson!
 
Krizon- Excellent stuff, I also had indoor riding facilities in the form of the stair banister with my fathers belts and ties! The beauty of which meant I could see the television as my father shouted instructions based on what Lester was racing on at the time etc! It came to prove very beneficial when older. It was virtual racing in the 70's.
 
Back
Top