Lockinge

SteveM said:
Thanks again Mo. My gut feeling is that Hawk Wing’s Lockinge performance was superior, although I doubt many will recognise it as such.

I somehow feel Frankel has the scope to surpass even this though. There are very few to compare with Brigadier Gerard, but Hawk Wing’s Lockinge was one such performance. By the end of the season perhaps Frankel will have bettered even this, although like Gareth I believe the full extent of his ability will only be properly expressed when stepping up in trip.
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Racing needs its heroes, especially when the likes of the BBC are doing their best to wipe it from our screens. I really hope Frankel puts up a performance or two this season to put him right up there with the very very best. For once, from my own perspective, it would be great to see real substance over hype.

At the moment, Frankel's best form doesn't justify tagging him the best of all time - ffs Terry Biddlecombe tried to tell us Best Mate was better than Arkle - but I hope by the end of the season it does.
 
I want to see him stepped up in trip but I have to say that I share Cecil's nervousness. Everyone seems to be suggesting he's settling better but I thought he was still pretty strong in Queally's hands on Saturday. He's not throwing his head around quite as much but he still wants to go faster.

A hard run mile is his optimum in my opinion and I think that's what we'll see come Ascot. If he's going to step up to 10f it will surely be in the international given connections?
 
I'd agree with those like Cruella and Sunybay who think Frankel showed greater maturity on Saturday, both before and during the race. I think he's certain to get 10f and likely to win top races, whatever about getting top ratings, on good ground at 12f.

P.S. I have no trouble believing DO's rating of Frankel's Lockinge run as his best yet. Nevertheless I agree with those who say the Timeform rating is too high for the time being, and let's not forget Phil Smith's explanation that he added a pound or two to Frankel's end of year official rating because he 'felt it appropriate' that it should match Sea The Stars's. To me he looks an even better horse than last year and will match or improve on those ratings eventually.
 
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The main concern with an unbeaten champion is to keep them unbeaten. Why go into unknown territory when you dont have to? Henry and The Prince have had champions over a variety of trips and such but to have an UNBEATEN one is rare, even for them.
 
I'd like to see him over a variety of trips. I think he'd win Group 1 races from 5f to 1m4f. So back to 6f to smash Black Caviar at Ascot, then a try at 10f, and ending up in the Arc. For me it's versatility that marks out the true champions from the very good racehorses - the Kautos from the Denmans if you like...

<<lights blue touch paper and retires>>
 
Bar the Bull said:
Am I the only one itching to see him over 6f?
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No, I would LOVE to see that raw speed unleashed over a sprint distance, but it doesn't sit with the "teach him to settle so he can win Prince Khalid's flagship race" plan, so I've resigned myself that it's never going to happen, sadly.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I've no doubt Hawk Wing's Lockinge was a better performance than Frankel's. HW beat better horses by further and, I believe, in a faster time (I'll check that later in the week). Where Or When didn't really run to his best form subsequently but Olden Times and Domedriver did.

I'm struggling to get my head round possible reasons why the likes of Brigadier Gerard has very fast pacemakers yet still shattered track records while Frankel and others don't. Were jockeys like Joe Mercer so much better at judging pace - and therefore sectionals - than present day jockeys?

Then again, when Dahlia won her first King George, they did all fall in a heap and she came from well off the pace to win by some way (six lengths?) very comfortably, form which subsequent events proved flattered her.
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Staggering the performance Frankel put up on the clock despite being in need of the run.

Everything has run to form both collaterally and in time perspective which is outstanding.

You couldn't ask for more!
 
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358xlhj.jpg



142 Frankel
129 Rakti
128 Canford Cliffs
127 Paco Boy
121 Hawk Wing
119 Creachadoir
117 Medicean
114 Russian Rhythm
113 Virtual
 
edgt said:
The main concern with an unbeaten champion is to keep them unbeaten. Why go into unknown territory when you dont have to? Henry and The Prince have had champions over a variety of trips and such but to have an UNBEATEN one is rare, even for them.
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I take your point, but if all they want is an unbeaten one they could retire him now. I hope and expect them to be braver than that and show us the full expression of the horse.
 
Cruella said:
No, I would LOVE to see that raw speed unleashed over a sprint distance, but it doesn't sit with the "teach him to settle so he can win Prince Khalid's flagship race" plan, so I've resigned myself that it's never going to happen, sadly.
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If it's any consolation this is what they have probably chosen the Queen Anne for, to show off his speed.

The way to go is certainly 10 furlongs though if they want him to be compared with the likes of Mill Reef, Shergar and dare I say it Sea-Bird.
 
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Bruce_Savage said:
358xlhj.jpg



142 Frankel
129 Rakti
128 Canford Cliffs
127 Paco Boy
121 Hawk Wing
119 Creachadoir
117 Medicean
114 Russian Rhythm
113 Virtual
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In that case your ratings are flawed. On comparative times, if Frankel is a 142 performer then the winners of the other races on the straight course on Saturday are pretty hot stuff too.

Frankel was all of 3lbs faster than Palace Moon. 29lbs faster than Emman Bee and 36lbs faster than Well Painted.

Try again.
 
The only figure I'm concerned with is the one on the left, all the rest is immaterial to me.
 
I'm not suggesting for one minute that my handicapping skills are up there with the very best and my approach might well by flawed but when it comes down to speed ratings there is no better in the country and that's where I focus all my attention - keep your eye on the figure on the left it's what you should be reading.
 
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