Melbourne Cup 2009

No, he didn't - can you show examples of other years with this exact same situation? (gap between Melbourne Cup and Breeders Cup, where he has the live chances he has over the 2 days)

He's plenty hungry enough, but pragmatic in what he targets himself at, which makes plenty of sense. He seems to know what he wants (Group race success) and seems as hungry enough as ever to achieve in this area. Still not a jockey in the UK I would rather up in a top class race (only Murtagh up there with him for me, but for different reasons)
 
Hamm said:
Still not a jockey in the UK I would rather up in a top class race (only Murtagh up there with him for me, but for different reasons)
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Agree entirely but disagree entirely on the Murtagh thing. :p

I'm sure Dettori is debated on every thread on here these days!
 
No, he didn't - can you show examples of other years with this exact same situation? (gap between Melbourne Cup and Breeders Cup, where he has the live chances he has over the 2 days)
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I don't need too, the end of season has always been hectic and top jocks have always spent this period in the air.
 
Sheikh said:
I don't need too, the end of season has always been hectic and top jocks have always spent this period in the air.
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With respect, aren't you rather assuming that the decision was Frankie's to make?

I would suspect that the decision in fact lies with Sheikh Mo - not Dettori - as to where he goes!!
 
Gamla Stan said:
I'd say Delegator and Mastery are much more important rides on Saturday and travelling across nearly every time zone in 4-5 days would certainly take it's toll on him when he has a near on full book of rides over 2 days at Santa Anita.
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Jet lag would certainly be an issue alright. As a whole the Breeders Cup is probably more important (certainly from a bloodstock perspective etc.) but if you asked me whether I would rather ride a Breeders Cup Mile winner or a Melbourne Cup winner, I certainly wouldn't need to think twice about it.

In my opinion the Arc, the Epsom Derby, the Kentucky Derby and the Melbourne Cup stand in a league of their alone as the four most important flat races in the world.
 
The Melbourne Cup is not within a stones throw of the other three races you mentioned or indeed any number of other genuine top class events.
 
Maybe not to us but surely we have to recognize the fact that the race is literally a national event in Australia? The amount of excitement it generates down there isn't even comparable to the Arc or Derby (far, far more). As an individual sporting event it captures the public imagination to a far greater extent than any race in the UK or Ireland.

Edit: just to make clear, of course I am not referring strictly to the quality of horse contesting the race. In this case, that doesn't even begin to tell the story of the magnitude of the race.
 
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Not suggesting it is not a massive races Down Under - but when I look forward to the flat season lets just say the Melbourne Cup is not that high on my list.

Japan and Hong Kong get huge crowds and a passionate fan base too.
 
betsmate said:
Or if you are talking about national recognition, then that Summer-jumping staying handicap at Aintree that everyone bangs on about.
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I would guess it's just about in the same bracket as the National.

I'm with you Gal, but is the reason that we don't much look forward to it as much because we don't have any idea about the rest of the horses/form etc. (apart from the Europeans)? I know many Europeans have gone down there (my brother included) and come back absolutely raving about it - Tony O'Hehir being another I believe.
 
trackside528 said:
I would guess it's just about in the same bracket as the National.

I'm with you Gal, but is the reason that we don't much look forward to it as much because we don't have any idea about the rest of the horses/form etc. (apart from the Europeans)? I know many Europeans have gone down there (my brother included) and come back absolutely raving about it - Tony O'Hehir being another I believe.
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I am sure it is a cracking day with tremendous facilities, but in terms of a race quality it just cannot be compared to any of the races you mentioned.
 
At the top level of any sport you want to see the very best beat the very good. As soon as you introduce a handicap, you are essentially watching what could be the best beating some bloke who you don't know's opinion. I don't believe that it has the purity to be considered any kind of peak.
 
One of my colleagues has been out to the Melbourne Cup for at least the last two years in a row (not this year though!) and he raves about it. I also have close family in Perth; they are not into horses in any way, shape or form yet every year get excited about the Melbourne Cup (indeed, my mother and three aunts have been to the Melbourne Cup at least once, raved about it and plan to go again in the near future) despite that fact that they live at least an 8 hours flight away. My cousin moved to Melbourne within the last few months and is another who isn't into horses in any shape but she, too, went to the races this year. Not only that, they get the day off work as a holiday in Melbourne at least!
 
We're going round in circles here lads!

We're measuring to different standards; personally I believe there is more to a stop sporting occassion than simply the best taking on each other. I appreciate that the Melbourne Cup wouldn't be within an arses roar of the other three.

As an aside, I presume you'd have the Irish Champion above the Derby on your master list, Bets?
 
trackside528 said:
We're going round in circles here lads!

We're measuring to different standards; personally I believe there is more to a stop sporting occassion than simply the best taking on each other. I appreciate that the Melbourne Cup wouldn't be within an arses roar of the other three.

As an aside, I presume you'd have the Irish Champion above the Derby on your master list, Bets?
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The Melbourne Cup is arguably bigger than the Arc and Epsom Derby basing it on your methods.
 
The Derby comes too early in the season and is run on a roller-coaster of the track. Sir Percy beat Dylan Thomas. Mickey Mouse race ;)
 
Even though I was awake by about 03.30 this morning, I couldn't be arsed to go downstairs to watch the race; I'm just not that interested in it. However credit where credit's due; this is a race that does, literally, stop a nation when we can't even manage the same for our supposedly far superior races like the Derby!
 
Galileo said:
The Melbourne Cup is arguably bigger than the Arc and Epsom Derby basing it on your methods.
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My scale is looking at it from an overall perspective, Gal. :p

Arc - 138
Kentucky Derby - 135
Derby - 135~
Melbourne Cup - 134
Irish Champion - 130

Remember the houha over Holy Orders a few years back? The press was literally following his every move. Of course you can say that Holy Orders is a fairly average handicapper, but you wouldn't get that kind of mainstream coverage over here for any race.
 
I guess unless you have witnessed what the Melbourne Cup does to the Aussies and therefore to the bloodstock industry in Aus/Nz than it's just another glorified handicap. Dettori, on the other hand has travelled and must know.Shrugging it off as just another handicap is convenient but lame.

Unless of course as Songsheet suggests it wasn't his ride to give up.
 
Well, randomly I WAS up at 4am (dog insisted he NEEDED to go out) and I DID watch it - and I have to say, it was the most interesting/exciting half hour involving a flat race Ive watched for ages. Everything about the coverage made me glad I watched it ( with the exception of Chaparse, who came close to completely ruining it as per usual....) I wouldnt stay or get up especially to watch - but if I happen to be about again - its grand.
 
I watched the 2.00 a.m. race, conked out, went to bed and woke up at 3.55, so got up and watched the Cup live, amused by the thought that my unhorsey 81 y.o. cuz in Oz would also be watching it with a bunch of her friends, having buddy bets and a few glasses of wine. It seems to be a race where anyone and everyone gets involved, whether they know a gaskin from a gasket or a Placepot from a plant pot. Big, national fun.
 
The picnics were a real pain,wherever you moved there was a picnic so you had to somehow manoeuvre your way around them.

But the worst part was the litter left on the ground from them,try as hard as you could you were guaranteed to tread on a empty bottle/can etc... and I wouldn't have liked to have been the poor sod who had to clear them up.

It was as you would expect with 102,000 there very busy and even though I had a Lawn Stand ticket I parked myself at the front of the rails after the third race and stayed there until after the Melbourne Cup.

If I'd moved I wouldn't have got back to the same spot.

As you would imagine a lot of people left after the Cup making it more manageable to move around (litter excepted).

Did like the water chutes that you could have a drink from,unfortunately they ended up full of litter also.

Very enjoyable experience nonetheless,what with the parade of ex winners the day before as well as connections of the participants paraded and a race preview straight after.

Of course there are still a couple of days left with the Oaks tomorrow and another meet on Saturday.

If you love your sport Melbourne is a great place to visit with all the venues very close to each other (MCG,Rod Laver Arena,Olympic Park which has a new development going on at the mo,etc.....)

And whereas in the UK you have those Open Top bus tours that cost a small fortune,Melbourne provides free trams and buses to get around parts of the city as well as tram & train links which are dirt cheap.

Didn't get to see half of what I wanted but financies permitting hope to go back and see what the MCG is like when full of spectators!
 
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