Michael Jackson...

After drinking myself silly on Friday night and have not been able to do much this weekend bar tv and the internet. Watching loads of old clips of Jackson on Youtube and his live performances looked absolutely awesome.
 
The Beatles had the top 6 in the USA billboard singles charts...top 6 .....in I think it was 1964 or 65..and none of them had died at that point

why do people buy music when an artist dies..very strange...I haven't had the urge to buy some mind you
 
Was talking to my nan today she's gone in the head but says Elvis's death had a bigger impact on the world.
 
I'm not an Elvis fan..but even I can still remember reading it that morning in the paper outside where I worked....when he died it was a big deal..a real big deal.

I can't be doing with reading about ...ground breaking artist for black people ..much more either..was he heck..there are loads of other high profile black musicians before he even came along....that broke the ground as they put it

its all just hype yet again...people get oh so impressed with very little these days..I don't mean MJ's talent there by the way
 
I saw some of that drivel too EC. think there was an article in the Guardian that i dare not read

He certainly didnt represent any constituency (or claim to ....to his credit) and frankly his music drifted a long long way from what i would consider soul/funk/jazz.

if we were talking James Brown or Gil scott heron...then maybe yes. Maybe Mary j too, but its no more rleevant than saying that Val Doonican "broke ground" for Irish music ...or whatever

Anyway, black artists have been breaking their own boundaries, be it House music, gospel or new orleans jazz, without any patronising drivel from cluesless Rock fans

......
 
clivex said:
I saw some of that drivel too EC. think there was an article in the Guardian that i dare not read

He certainly didnt represent any constituency (or claim to ....to his credit) and frankly his music drifted a long long way from what i would consider soul/funk/jazz.

if we were talking James Brown or Gil scott heron...then maybe yes. Maybe Mary j too, but its no more rleevant than saying that Val Doonican "broke ground" for Irish music ...or whatever

Anyway, black artists have been breaking their own boundaries, be it House music, gospel or new orleans jazz, without any patronising drivel from cluesless Rock fans

......
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rock fans had their own black groundbreaker - Jimi Hendrix

now we are talking about talent :cool:
 
There will always be hype and overkill in situations like this when there is now 24 hours of news coverage around the clock and they jump on things like this to fill up time.

But that does not take away from what the guy achieved and that should be marked and the rest of the Sky News rubbish ignored as it should be....his sales figures particularly for Thriller are just staggering...mind blowing.

His iconic performance of Billie Jean at the Motown 25th Anniversary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e9P1EzcNU0
 
Oh, that's weird - I was just going to say how the Jackson Five's success was based firmly in Tamla Motown's musical genre. In some ways, MJ kept up a variation of that theme, especially with the glitz and glam throughout his performances. Black US artistes just don't do grunge and shabby!
 
EC1 said:
rock fans had their own black groundbreaker - Jimi Hendrix

now we are talking about talent :cool:
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Little Richard?

A lot of rock n roll influence derive from jazz, and R&B anyway, although Elvis would cite negro spiritual too. I would tend to agree that Hendrix broke new ground, as a black 'rock artist' which as Clive says isn't really a genre where black musicians had a tradition. Even today you don't really see, well in fact I can't think there's ever been one? a conventional black 'guitar band'.

The European influences have tended to draw more on reggae and ska, with Americans going more down this rap route instead, with disco/ funk forming it's own sub-culture.
 
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It is music comming home Elvis was inspired by black music and Hendrix was somthing else he was not squeeky kleen in fact things that he and his band got up to would still shock today.
 
I'm still struggling to see what Jacksons 'real' contribution is though other than performance and presentation. I keep reading about all these people who are supposed to have been inspired by him, but they seem to be thin on the ground by way of examples. There's artists who say they liked him as a child, and in that regard he might have been responsible in making music accessible to them and lighting the initial spark that led them to other areas, but I don't see 'influences' either musically or lyrically coming through to the extent that we're seemingly being led to believe. And lets be honest, for near on 10-15 years at least now he's been damaged currency and not necessarily the sought of tag you'd want to be associated with anyway
 
He was still very Motownish, is what I'm saying - the presentation certainly had its roots in the genre right through his career: the syncopated moves, the high level of bling, the backing vocals and the glitzy sets. He could've easily sung 'Tracks of My Tears' and it wouldn't have looked out of place. The Jackson Five were certainly all Motown for the same reasons - the range of voice tones, like The Platters and any other amount of black groups (their youth being one main diff). Unfortunately, MJ represented the high end of the range and once away from a group of more rounded-out vocals, he sang in a rather juvenile falsetto - not the best vehicle for love songs! His contribution was performance and presentation - it wasn't writing original songs or a different kind of music.
 
In terms of black groundbreakers - Chuck Berry? Muddy Waters? Robert Johnson? Whether they knew it or not, they essentially invented rock and roll - where would The Beatles or the Stones be without them? And every band since who followed their blueprint?
 
Way before them, Gareth - back in the 1930s, developing in the 1940s, and finally being brought to white (or mixed race) audiences by Alan Freed in the early 1950s, before Elvis launched in the late 50s. The origins would probably stem from tribal shuffle dances remembered and passed down by West African slaves to their precedents, with embellishments introduced by hillbilly bands and what were termed in the earlier years as 'race bands' - meaning black only, with black only audiences. A strong backbeat provided by a snare drum drove the genre - presumably mimicking the skin drums of African village dances. It's a brilliant fusion of R&B, blues, jazz, and the memory of tribal dance.
 
I think he was the first black man to have a video played on some U.S. chanel, but he changed pop video's into film standard that boy could sing dance write, and he was prety shrewed as he has left unpublished songs to his kids so he took Sony's money spent went out owing around half a billion$ yet he must be worth all of that,
now that' what I call tax avodence, I fear the lawers will want a slice of this cake.
 
Nat King Cole :)

Must say I was a bit surprised when we actually got to see Jacko's children for the first time in 12 years a few weeks ago. No idea what the chances of all three of his kids having the same rare "medical condition" as he himself had but it must be at least 1,000,000/1?
 
EC1 said:
The Beatles had the top 6 in the USA billboard singles charts...top 6 .....in I think it was 1964 or 65..and none of them had died at that point

why do people buy music when an artist dies..very strange...I haven't had the urge to buy some mind you
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I bought some Shostakovich when I found out he'd died :(
 
Regardless of all the rumours/court stuff I still find it quite sad watching some of the clips of him slowly going down hill over the years, he obviously had a lot of demons to fight, he never had a normal childhood & that was reflected in how he lived his life,

I only hope he receives some peace wherever he is now.
 
Warbler said:
Even today you don't really see, well in fact I can't think there's ever been one? a conventional black 'guitar band'.
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I know of a Death Metal band called Crackdust. They`re from Botswana believe it or not. DM ain't my thing so I haven't checked them out, but they're supposed to be ok.

Ice-T had a side project called Bodycount that were guitar driven and Cypress Hill had guitar elements.
 
krizon said:
Black US artistes just don't do grunge and shabby!
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And some have admitted to worst things on their singles and albums than Michael Jackson ever alledgedly did in real life... Not just black of course as we have the eminems of the world, but he's more of a "prankster rapper" than a "gangster rapper".

Don't get me wrong i'm not one of the anti-rap brigade as I feel there's two sides two every story, (although a few years ago I was) but it is interesting nevertheless that people didn't make jokes when self confessed crack dealer the Notorious BIG died in 1997, or another criminal like Tupac Shakur a year earlier.
 
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The question (seeing as he is being pigeonholed as such) is whether MJ influenced black music?

No. Frankly. As effective a performer as he was, he was out on his own a bit and didnt break or develop any new ground in the way that James Brown, Stevie or curtis Mayfield did. Or even many many recent artists from the hip hop, house and rap scenes. Its hard to think of a soul/funk artist who you could cite as being directly influenced by MJ in an obvious way. Thats not to say he wasnt effective, but hes more Sammy Davis Junior than John Coltrane
 
I've heard people like Kelly Rowland and Neo to name two artists who had stated they were influenced by his music. I find it bizarre anyone could question Jacksons impact on the musical genre. You can't pigeon-hole him and say he influenced one type of person, of one colour, in one place, of one age. What you can say is he gave millions upon millions a feel good factor that reached across many boundaries. Whether you interpret that as meaning he didn't directly affect black music is up to you.

As for him only being a presentation and no substance man, well where and what does this argument remind me of. Presentation is a good and in many ways vital instrument which people (especially those who are known by the general public) should have in an ideal world. Why people scorn at presentation is beyond me.
 
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some of the problem is that making an impact in the 80's wasn't hard..there was so much shite about it was unreal..which could undermime anyone who achieved owt in the 80's.

making an impact in the 60's was harder..and early 70's.. when lots of genres were actually created and the competition in all types of music was white hot

rocket robin at that point didn't cut much ice for instance
 
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