Murtagh at Ballydoyle

Gearoid said:
[FONT=&quot]he is above the Ballydoyle job because it cannot offer him anything extra[/FONT]
Click to expand...

Whether it can or can't in the future is open to the unending debate, but the list of winners shown by Gal cannot be matched by Stoute, can it? So history would suggest that Moore MIGHT have more opportunities of Group 1 success at Ballydoyle than with Stoute. Surely not a step down in terms of job. Maybe equals, depending on how you get on with your boss. Maybe one if slightly ahead of the other. But neither are a step down.
 
A friend suggested to me a while ago that Ballydoyle may drop Murtagh. I was surprised but he reckoned that Murtagh doesn't seem to be able to tell them which of there horses are better than others. He does seem to be on the wrong one more than Kinane and Fallon in their time. As a race rider I think he's brilliant.

Thought McDonagh was an interesting pick to succeed him if it did happen but i don't think it will.
 
Declan McDonagh is a legend in my eyes for his rides on Kevin Prendepast 2yo but he will never have what Murtagh has. Murtagh is the business, his failings have come in graded races abroad.
 
Cantoris said:
I'm not political, so couldn't give a rashers, but thought the coverage was a bit OTT. His advisors should be sacked. Clearly he'd had a few pints, there was a bit of music maybe and he had to raise his voice to talk to people. I'm the same way myself after a wedding/night out. But I'm not always hungover. So a bit unfair to say a hoarse voice means you are hungover. What he said was pretty coherent. But he shouldn't have been let do the interview with a hoarse voice and three hours sleep.

PS for those across the water that mightn't have heard, our Taoiseach is now being compared to Boris Yeltsin!!
Click to expand...

Yet another sad indication of just how fatalistic the country has become. Bad as things are, lurching from scapegoat to scapegoat is just pathetic really.

I heard a while back that Murtagh was in trouble over giving information out over outsiders. Usual racecourse gossip in all liklihood though.

The riding arrangements are getting more and more difficult to gauge. Remember Murtagh - presumably on the first string - in the fillies maiden at Leopardstown and yet it was in Aidan's colours (which I thought was when his son got the pick of the mounts) and then Joseph keeping the mount on Eagle Canyon when the colt was well punted on both of his last two starts. Very difficult to make sense of it all; can you have it sorted please, Gal? :p
 
Sheikh said:
I was surprised but he reckoned that Murtagh doesn't seem to be able to tell them which of there horses are better than others. He does seem to be on the wrong one more than Kinane and Fallon in their time.
Click to expand...

Is that not the trainers job though? A jock's job is to tell the trainer what happened in a race (e.g. was a gallop short) and what they might do in the future (e.g. trip, ground etc). It is up to the trainer then to formulate the plan and only the trainer knows how much three horses in the one race have improved/disimproved since they ran last (as he talks to the work riders each day, does the rounds, knows the horses intimately). It obviously helps if your jock is the main work rider but I have been told that Lester left many good horses dead on the gallops trying to make sure he was on the right one when they had a few entries. John Dunlop refused to have Willie Carson ride work as he's a crap work rider, good jock and Dunlop just wanted Carson to do what he was told. I'd be surprised if they felt they had to part company with Murtagh because he's a bad tipster!

On McDonagh, I think he's a bit like Fran Berry. Great in certain races but just not always up to it in bigger races. Having said that, he seems to be more relaxed now than he used to be so maybe he's matured a bit since the O'Reillys pushed him out.
 
O'Briens training methods have changed over the years. When Kinane was there you get the impression more was asked of them on the gallops were as now we see the Ballydoyle horses turning up for Classics with plenty to work on. Imagine that makes it tougher on Murtagh.
 
trackside528 said:
I heard a while back that Murtagh was in trouble over giving information out over outsiders. Usual racecourse gossip in all liklihood though.
Click to expand...

Now I could believe that, given who his father in law is. Ballydoyle, like Oxx, like to win with an outsider to give the staff a payday. Footstepsinthesand was one. There was one last year too in a similar fashion to Footsteps. On a similar line, I believe APO'B put money on Theatreworld without Istabraq in the Champion Hurdle on behalf of the stable lads. But it needs to be kept pretty quiet.
 
Galileo said:
now we see the Ballydoyle horses turning up for Classics with plenty to work on.
Click to expand...

Ah, so he's recognised that there are two halves to a season!! Similar to the changes he made with the two years olds around the time he had Fasiliyev.
 
This thread is desending into the Betfair forums standard without any facts.
 
Last edited:
Point taken, Gearoid. I agree with Gal's point above in that I'm struggling to think of any viable alternatives to match (much less surpass) Murtagh on a Group 1 day. Surely that alone would make any split considerably more unlikely whatever the situation.
 
Don't think it would have anything to do with them looking for tips ! Ballydoyle needs to know what they have when mapping out a career to make a stallion. The assertion is that Murtagh can't tell them. I don't remember Fallon being wrong about the pecking order much but as Gal says they do tend to turn up on race day half baked these days so it's more difficult for him. Imo he is the top race rider in Europe.

As regards the staff having a punt on the lesser lights that happens all the time. Take a look at the ride Joseph got a ban for at Listowel. He was on the fav.He could have been done for not trying if he wan't done for careless riding to get into second late on.
 
Last edited:
LUKE said:
Murtagh hasn't been spectacular this year.They will get whoever they want for the job-it's still the biggest job in European racing.Smullen won't get the job,Queally would be the obvious choice but what price they go Stateside.
Click to expand...

Luke, you are very funny to read re Queally. If he was born 60 miles north or west, I'd say it's 1/2 you'd never even mention him .. :p
 
Bias aside, would you not think a job like Ballydoyle, and the focus on nearly every ride and the media intensity would be a little past him at this stage of his career?

Don't get me wrong, he's doing well with Cecil, who seems to have classic contenders a plenty so you would think he would be happy to stay regardless.
 
In the Sangster/VO'B days, I remember it being said that Eddery got a share in every horse he rode to a group 1 success. If that practice has continued on with the new Ballydoyle incumbents it would surely be a job that nobody would ever turn down.
 
Hamm said:
Bias aside, would you not think a job like Ballydoyle, and the focus on nearly every ride and the media intensity would be a little past him at this stage of his career?

Don't get me wrong, he's doing well with Cecil, who seems to have classic contenders a plenty so you would think he would be happy to stay regardless.
Click to expand...

I would imagine Barney Curley will give him the advice he needs.He is doing well at the moment so the Ballydoyle job isn't a matter of life and death.
 
Melendez said:
In the Sangster/VO'B days, I remember it being said that Eddery got a share in every horse he rode to a group 1 success.
Click to expand...

Is that not what Lester got done for? He was selling the stallion nomination on and not declaring the income? I don't think it happens as much these days but Kinane definately got a couple as does APO'B.
 
Sheikh said:
Ballydoyle needs to know what they have when mapping out a career to make a stallion. The assertion is that Murtagh can't tell them. I don't remember Fallon being wrong about the pecking order much but as Gal says they do tend to turn up on race day half baked these days so it's more difficult for him. Imo he is the top race rider in Europe.
Click to expand...

Should they not be asking O'Brien how good the horses are rather than Murtagh? He can only tell them once he's ridden them and advise on which way they can go. Maybe Fallon was as good a workrider as he is a jockey, but not all jocks are good workriders. But the overall responsibility falls on O'Brien to gather the info from his workriders and jocks on track and prepare a roadmap for each horse.

Is it possible that their new style of training, focusing on the full year, means that some of their horses are improving considerably from run to run and O'Brien is struggling to figure it out. When they are all fit in May, it's much easier to gauge ability. Now he seems to have them fit at different times. You can hardly blame Murtagh for that and if he gets fired for that, O'Brien will go soon after him.
 
But if you're a dual-purpose trainer (as many are), Cantoris, you don't struggle to figure how to get your (very different) horses fit at different times. You're running horses all year round in regular NH, on Flat grass, Flat AW, and probably summer jumps, too. Sure it's a lot of work, but that's why you have - at AOB's level - assistants and darn good stable staff to report back on who's eating up, who's off colour, who's put in a stonking good piece of work, and who keeps clattering his hurdles. It's not as if Aidan has to ride every horse, check every pile of dung and examine every feed bucket personally.
 
It's not as if Aidan has to ride every horse, check every pile of dung and examine every feed bucket personally
Click to expand...

When he's finished saying hello to everyone and eaten his porridge there isn't time for much else.
 
:lol: But I have sometimes wondered - seriously now! - whether he does let enough duties go. Fair enough you want to be at the course as much as you can, but to always saddle up the horse, brush it down every time? Perhaps he is a high anxiety person, never quite confident that anyone can get things as right as he can, and that he really doesn't make the most of the staff he must (or should) have. Seems a lovely person, but maybe he should let go a bit more!
 
Back
Top