No he didn't. And what view was that then anyway?
2009 stats are not quite as relevant as 2013 when discussing 2014
Even you could work that out maybe?
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Net Migration UP!!
- Thread starter Desperate Dan
- Start date
No he didn't. And what view was that then anyway?
2009 stats are not quite as relevant as 2013 when discussing 2014
Even you could work that out maybe?
My keyword was 'surprsiing' not 'apt.'
Whatever
And that's even before we got to Italy's supposed figures.
Could have been an interesting thread but took usual turn with some seriously rubbish points and usual trolling about "points I made" (yawn)
Life's too short. An overall Move on time I think
And that's even before we got to Italy's supposed figures.
Could have been an interesting thread but took usual turn with some seriously rubbish points and usual trolling about "points I made" (yawn)
Life's too short. An overall Move on time I think
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Out of respect I will come back on this and give it time of day
I put my client in front of a lender
he gives them a balance sheet riddled with obvious errors
lender says.im not having this
client says. Well its all youve got
or as you suggest. Wheres your version of it then?
Client is told to **** off out of it
crap post grass . Really rubbish and you know why else?
Becuase I only expressed one view. That the 2013 net migration figures for the evil uk demonstrate an economy on the up.
That would wind some upof course but is hardly controversial
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Grasshopper
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Your 'balance sheet' argument is a bit flimsy, imo.
If a client puts a balance-sheet in front of me, I go to the nearest available expert to have it corroborated - regardless of my opinion - because accounting isn't my area of expertise. If I'm sufficiently expert in the field of accouting, I might not feel the need to apply this check-and-balance.
You presumably consider yourself sufficiently expert in the field of immigration (across the continent) to dismiss these numbers out-of-hand. If that's the case, I'd like it if you put this implied expertise to work, and produced numbers of your own to back it up.
The UK economy angle is a slightly different argument - one where I tend to agree with you.
If a client puts a balance-sheet in front of me, I go to the nearest available expert to have it corroborated - regardless of my opinion - because accounting isn't my area of expertise. If I'm sufficiently expert in the field of accouting, I might not feel the need to apply this check-and-balance.
You presumably consider yourself sufficiently expert in the field of immigration (across the continent) to dismiss these numbers out-of-hand. If that's the case, I'd like it if you put this implied expertise to work, and produced numbers of your own to back it up.
The UK economy angle is a slightly different argument - one where I tend to agree with you.
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Total rubbish
You don't have to be a qualified accountant to see a complete rick in the figures. What a cop out
Portugals figure is wrong by a likely factor of at least 5 . Five ffs. And for five solid years too. Been through this. Portugal is a long term historic tradition of labour emigration to boot. Not least their gorgeous nannies
Italy looks way out too. Less than Switzerland? Was it? A country with one eighth of Italy's population and hardly an economic basket case
You would pay an accountant to work that out?
No wonder you back dud horses
You don't have to be a qualified accountant to see a complete rick in the figures. What a cop out
Portugals figure is wrong by a likely factor of at least 5 . Five ffs. And for five solid years too. Been through this. Portugal is a long term historic tradition of labour emigration to boot. Not least their gorgeous nannies
Italy looks way out too. Less than Switzerland? Was it? A country with one eighth of Italy's population and hardly an economic basket case
You would pay an accountant to work that out?
No wonder you back dud horses
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Grasshopper
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How do you know it's a rick?
Surely, the only way to establish this is to contrast these with previous figures, to confirm whether they're way out-of-line or not?
Surely, the only way to establish this is to contrast these with previous figures, to confirm whether they're way out-of-line or not?
Jesus Christ
Because do you really believe that a spaniard is FIVE times more likely to emigrate than a portugeese? No chance. I would have a strong bet on real figure that portugeese are MORE likely to emigrate than spaniards.
If they emigrated at the same rate from both countries (and why not... ), portugals population should be 2m not 10m on these stats
Now it looks crap doesn't it.
And a Swiss eight times (will check this) than an Italian? Really?
This isn't 10 or 20 % differences. It's 500 -800 %
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Grasshopper
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OK.
I'm actually sceptical about the figures too. I'm really arguing that it's a difficult argument to sustain merely dismissing them outright with no counter-measures deployed.
Another question then.
Let's say these numbers are as gash as you say. What would the motivation be to massage them - either one way or the other - and who would be motivated to do so?
I'm actually sceptical about the figures too. I'm really arguing that it's a difficult argument to sustain merely dismissing them outright with no counter-measures deployed.
Another question then.
Let's say these numbers are as gash as you say. What would the motivation be to massage them - either one way or the other - and who would be motivated to do so?
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The tables all refer to end-2011.
And as for your very clever point about the fourth table, you obviously haven't grasped that it shows emigration to outside the EU, rather than to elsewhere in the EU.
If the point you wish to make is that the UK economy is doing well, that is fair enough. If you want to say along with the Daily Mail that migration flows prove the UK is some kind of social welfare shangri la and the whole world is clamouring to go there, even from elsewhere in the EU, then the data shows you are mistaken.
Now f*ck off yourself
i did grasp that. Thats why i mentioned aus and usa
I dont go with the daily mail line. There is certainly an element of it but no more than elsewhere (probably less) the germany etc. I reckon that the talent attraction to the UK is significant, especially London, and thats no bad thing
No where in the thread did i make a Daily mail line. The opposite in truth
I will fck off now
I dont go with the daily mail line. There is certainly an element of it but no more than elsewhere (probably less) the germany etc. I reckon that the talent attraction to the UK is significant, especially London, and thats no bad thing
No where in the thread did i make a Daily mail line. The opposite in truth
I will fck off now
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No idea frankly. I wondered about that too.
i did grasp that. Thats why i mentioned aus and usa
I dont go with the daily mail line. There is certainly an element of it but no more than elsewhere (probably less) the germany etc. I reckon that the talent attraction to the UK is significant, especially London, and thats no bad thing
No where in the thread did i make a Daily mail line. The opposite in truth
I will fck off now
You're making a Mail line that Britain is the place to be and the whole world, including the rest of the EU is queuing up to get there.
There are plenty of people heading to London but there's a lot of talent going the other direction too, enough for people to be worried about a brain drain in science, engineering and the like. And in spite of claims to the contrary there are plenty of people going elsewhere in the EU, even to the eurozone. And quite a few of them, whisper it, are British.
English speaking people are more mobile, it's true, but that works both ways because it makes English speaking countries a more obvious destination for the very large numbers of foreigners who already speak a bit of English. The fact people want to go to English speaking countries isn't purely because they are paradise.
And regarding the table, without labouring it you obviously don't understand it.
this is getting on my nerves again
where did i say that?
I highlighted the french coming to london ONLY. And a certain element of the French. That is hardly a secret
So I mentioned that the net migration is a positive. Where does that translate to me claiming that "everyone is queueing up to come to the uK" only?
the last line is just drivel. counter the points ive made if that is what you believe otherwise it counts for nothing
where did i say that?
I highlighted the french coming to london ONLY. And a certain element of the French. That is hardly a secret
So I mentioned that the net migration is a positive. Where does that translate to me claiming that "everyone is queueing up to come to the uK" only?
the last line is just drivel. counter the points ive made if that is what you believe otherwise it counts for nothing
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You said on page 1 of this thread, about net inward migration from the rest of the EU being up:
You weren't talking about "London ONLY", you were using the increase in inward migration to the UK as a basis for puffing your chest out and favourably comparing the UK economy with the eurozone, which you are convinced is doomed to fail. You also said that signs of a brain drain in the science and engineering sectors "mean nothing". And you were desperate to rubbish the statistics showing that migration into the UK is nothing unique.
You weren't talking about "London ONLY", you were using the increase in inward migration to the UK as a basis for puffing your chest out and favourably comparing the UK economy with the eurozone, which you are convinced is doomed to fail. You also said that signs of a brain drain in the science and engineering sectors "mean nothing". And you were desperate to rubbish the statistics showing that migration into the UK is nothing unique.
Where did i say that?
Nowhere
Where do the stats confirm that its science and engineering taht is leaving the country?
Nowhere. although may well be true.
So engineering leaves and media and advertising comes in say. Does it matter? Not really overall but not ideal
Is the UK outperforming the eurozone right now
Yes
Did i say that it was anywhere other than London?
Do you understand what net migration is? Any idea at all? eMigration alone is like looking at a balance sheet and squealing away about the liabilities without looking at the assets. Pointless
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Come on, are you not able to at least read your own posts, even if you can't remember them?
You said that this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10258081/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html "means nothing".
Why won't you stop digging, someone might fill in the hole you've made for yourself with you still in it.
You said that this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10258081/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html "means nothing".
Why won't you stop digging, someone might fill in the hole you've made for yourself with you still in it.
Desperate Dan
Senior Jockey
Time for you both to "agree to differ", chaps?
I said it means nothing in terms of net migration. Not the sectors. Emigration from germany was pretty high too wasnt it?
So what if there are loads of graduates living abroad? Many are there in anglophone countries for whatever. They do that. Its easier as i stated. And everyones a "graduate"now anyway. half of them are probably media studies smoking dope in bali
Grass
portugal spain
Portugeeses uk population 88k
spanish 57k
Only uk of course and long tradition of portugeese coming here (stockwell is like lisbon)...but start applying that ratio to those laughable stats across the board and ...
So what if there are loads of graduates living abroad? Many are there in anglophone countries for whatever. They do that. Its easier as i stated. And everyones a "graduate"now anyway. half of them are probably media studies smoking dope in bali
Grass
portugal spain
Portugeeses uk population 88k
spanish 57k
Only uk of course and long tradition of portugeese coming here (stockwell is like lisbon)...but start applying that ratio to those laughable stats across the board and ...
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C
CPGagie
Guest
During 2011 - 2012, the wife and I considered selling up in Australia, and moving back to Europe (just to cash in). We looked at Spain, the Greek Islands and Portugal.
I recall we'd have got much more house for our dollar in Portugal compared to much of Spain, though the Spanish house prices did fall further as time went on.
My point being, the figures that Clive points out may not be as far from the truth as he may think.
Why would a Portuguese family swap their 4 - 5 bedroomed joint for a 2 bedroomed place in Australia. On the other side of the coin, a Spanish family would get something just a bit smaller or similar. The stats (as pointed out) were for persons migrating outside of the EU in 2011.
The Portuguese were more 'financially trapped' than the Spaniards during that year. Though, as I say, Spanish properties did decline in price the following year, but we're talking up to the end of 2011 only. Portuguese got hit hardest first imo.
I recall we'd have got much more house for our dollar in Portugal compared to much of Spain, though the Spanish house prices did fall further as time went on.
My point being, the figures that Clive points out may not be as far from the truth as he may think.
Why would a Portuguese family swap their 4 - 5 bedroomed joint for a 2 bedroomed place in Australia. On the other side of the coin, a Spanish family would get something just a bit smaller or similar. The stats (as pointed out) were for persons migrating outside of the EU in 2011.
The Portuguese were more 'financially trapped' than the Spaniards during that year. Though, as I say, Spanish properties did decline in price the following year, but we're talking up to the end of 2011 only. Portuguese got hit hardest first imo.
Sorry. Wide of mark
the stats are over 5 years
Secondly, how many portugeese migrating own a house? Come on now...
Thridly you would have more spanish in uk (by a huge margin) than portugeese. See above
On that basis you would have more immigration from rich countries than poor. Not quite the case is it?
the stats are over 5 years
Secondly, how many portugeese migrating own a house? Come on now...
Thridly you would have more spanish in uk (by a huge margin) than portugeese. See above
On that basis you would have more immigration from rich countries than poor. Not quite the case is it?
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CPGagie
Guest
Seems a bit strange, Clive, thats all. A little coincidental with the mid 2008 financial collapse and the knock on effect.
You might find that a lot of people that emigrate aren't recent graduates looking for their first job. Many will have had mortgages if not owning their own property outright. Families moving outside the EU will obviously have a greater head count.
Also interesting that you brought up the Swiss and Italians. Swiss properties held up, while the Italians were hit.
The stats being over 5 years means nothing, and in fact only adds substance to my point. 2007 - 2011 inclusive, which give 3.5 years for the 2008 financial collapse to take effect.
You might find that a lot of people that emigrate aren't recent graduates looking for their first job. Many will have had mortgages if not owning their own property outright. Families moving outside the EU will obviously have a greater head count.
Also interesting that you brought up the Swiss and Italians. Swiss properties held up, while the Italians were hit.
The stats being over 5 years means nothing, and in fact only adds substance to my point. 2007 - 2011 inclusive, which give 3.5 years for the 2008 financial collapse to take effect.