New Approach
- Thread starter Euronymous
- Start date
Harbinger
At the Start
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- Mar 22, 2004
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Yeah, but for the Irish Guineas over the Derby. No choice has to be made between the Derby and the Irish Derby, it's one of the most natural progressions in racing.
So why is he making this choice? Because he's never won it? Putting his own legacy ahead of that of the horse's?
So why is he making this choice? Because he's never won it? Putting his own legacy ahead of that of the horse's?
Powerscourt
At the Start
It used to be like that but only North Light has attempted the double in the last 5 years.
Bolger sometimes likes to do things that have not been accomplished in a while like running FB in three Guineas last year and talking up a Triple Crown bid with Teofilo.
Flagship uberalles
Journeyman
If they have any reason to believe that he won't handle the course at Epsom then this makes sense I suppose - but how could they be certain of that? Are there any Epsom-like corners in Ireland they could have galloped him round?
Gareth
Only Jim knows why, but he's probably thinking where are my best options of winning G1's with this horse and two shots at 8f are probably the best options.
If successful in one or other he's got the G1 on his cv in bag, anything he gets after that just adds more to the horses cv and more money to his stud fee
Only Jim knows why, but he's probably thinking where are my best options of winning G1's with this horse and two shots at 8f are probably the best options.
If successful in one or other he's got the G1 on his cv in bag, anything he gets after that just adds more to the horses cv and more money to his stud fee
Perhaps his temperment will not be suited to the day. They possibly hoped he would relax a little from 2 to 3 and that might not be the case. If he didnt relax the day of Epsom his chances would be blown.
Also his least impressive performance last year came in the Dewhurst. Connections reported that was due to the fact they were having to get him to relax in his races with the Derby in mind. Perhaps they felt his natural spark would have been diminished if they were training him to get 12 furlongs.
Also his least impressive performance last year came in the Dewhurst. Connections reported that was due to the fact they were having to get him to relax in his races with the Derby in mind. Perhaps they felt his natural spark would have been diminished if they were training him to get 12 furlongs.
Harbinger
At the Start
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- Mar 22, 2004
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He also trained the dam, who was second in the Yorkshire Oaks and won the Irish Champion. Throw in the already blatant stamina influence of Galileo and you'd wonder why it's not the Guineas they're bypassing for the longer trip of the Derbys...
Gareth
Though pedigree suggest no problem at 12f, i think he may be playing it safe here, he knows step up another furlong won't be a problem at all , but 12f's could be
Dam's progeny have been seen at their best at 10f or less, a Galileo covering is trying to put more stamina into her progeny, something that is not guaranteed to happen
I really don’t think Bolger is trying to be “smart” and miss the Derby out of choice.
Clearly the horse is giving him signs that the Derby or the step up to 1m4f would not be suitable at this time. Basically I don’t think its Bolgers choice to bypass the race, more likely his hand is being forced by the horse itself.
Clearly the horse is giving him signs that the Derby or the step up to 1m4f would not be suitable at this time. Basically I don’t think its Bolgers choice to bypass the race, more likely his hand is being forced by the horse itself.
Gal, you could be right,
Gareth
The Guineas should be run to bring out this horses strength, just like Dewhurst did
He won Dewhurst because of the influence of stamina, RDP and Ravens Pass were out of gas
If ground is any worse than good come Guineas day, i'd forget Ravens Pass as ground more testing will probably see him choking on bit in final furlong with horses like New Approach and Twice Over (if he runs) staying on past him up that rise
Gareth
The Guineas should be run to bring out this horses strength, just like Dewhurst did
He won Dewhurst because of the influence of stamina, RDP and Ravens Pass were out of gas
If ground is any worse than good come Guineas day, i'd forget Ravens Pass as ground more testing will probably see him choking on bit in final furlong with horses like New Approach and Twice Over (if he runs) staying on past him up that rise
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Bolger and good race planning eh. First Finsceal Beo and now New Approach. What a tool.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
If he`d not taken her to Longchamp and pulled her out at Ascot when the ground was wrong she`d have still been fresh as a daisy for something like the Falmouth, where Simply Perfect obviously was held on form.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Mid 120s i`d say.
I didn`t say i was the best punter, one of the best was the term i used.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Put it this way, a filly winning a Guineas at 120 is a pretty average classic winning filly, and given that she won it by two and half lengths it would suggest the animals behind her are a sorry bunch by classic standards - certainly not a group that would contain future Group 1 winners. You mentioned Attraction Charlie and looking at the field behind her at Newmarket i can`t see any future Group 1 winners. FB`s defeated foes contain at least two.
**** me, you mention Cockney Rebel and Ramonti like their top class animals - do me a favour. With the three pound allowance there is no question in my mind FB would have won the 2000 if she`d taken part. Wtf did Vital Equine and Dutch Art do for the form subsequently?
**** me, you mention Cockney Rebel and Ramonti like their top class animals - do me a favour. With the three pound allowance there is no question in my mind FB would have won the 2000 if she`d taken part. Wtf did Vital Equine and Dutch Art do for the form subsequently?
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I think it`s natural to always assume the male version is better. But that 2000 Guineas was dog ###### average. CR can`t have run to more than 126 - so FB on let`s say 123 would have gone very close.
Cockney Rebel won BOTH Guineas, and could only beat what was in the races, which he did easily enough. I'm sorry people are still knocking him, we don't know what he might have achieved if he hadn't gone lame
Ramonti won four Group 1s last year. You are hard to please!
Or maybe like so many you just get an idea in your head then have to keep trying to prove it
Ramonti won four Group 1s last year. You are hard to please!
Or maybe like so many you just get an idea in your head then have to keep trying to prove it
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
He was lucky in at least two of them and really again could a figure even approaching 130 be given for him. Very few people thought a mere filly could have bested him in the Moulin - but Darjina (not very far in front of FB on two occasions) certainly did.
Euro
Since 1997 - 1000 Guineas winners RPR
121 FB
114
115
115
118
112
115 Attraction
115
114
118
125 Cape Verdi
Average = 116
FB was an above average winner
No mention of TOP class horse in that statement, so please don't try and make out there is
Since 1997 - 1000 Guineas winners RPR
121 FB
114
115
115
118
112
115 Attraction
115
114
118
125 Cape Verdi
Average = 116
FB was an above average winner
No mention of TOP class horse in that statement, so please don't try and make out there is
