New Approach

Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Apr 21 2008, 11:00 PM
The hype of the Derby? Jesus. Can someone tell me what other more prestigious races there are that New Approach only has one shot at?
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Perhaps I should have said 'the hype of Derby DAY' - it's a bit of a fecking circus isn't it?
- and that's one reason why the best horse doesn't always win. the possibility of winning it may not outweigh the very real possibilty of *losing* it an losing it badly, ESP if the horse is nervy and likely to lose it in the paddock.

I'm not saying I defend the decision - just that it may not be as bizarre as some on here like to think
I've already suggested reasons why Bolger may have decided to swerve the Derby; whatever they are it's NOT, from the signals I've had emanating from the yard, because he hasn't trained on. Which would explain why his price has shortened for the Guineas!

By the way I thought Bolger's good horses were all being bought by Sheikh Mo? Isn't NA running fo Princess Haya?
I wouldn't have thought their priority from a stud point of view was to win the Derby either, romantic though it is, any more than it's a *priority* for Coolmore, for reasons which Sheikh points out

Some friends of mine have just had their mare covered by Sir Percy btw. He cost nuppence!
A five figure sum. A slight element of 'mates rates' but even so, I was amazed!


Betsmate do try to say something constructive, and if you can't then hold your peace.
Sheikh is an Irishman, and has horses in training in Ireland. As he's already told us.
Hence 'from over the sea'. What the feck's that got to do with Lancashire
and why can't you GROW UP :rolleyes:
 
Bolger knows he`d get cruxified if he pulled the horse out of the 2000. He`s just gonna hope for the best and when Raven`s Pass whooooooooshes by he can just say the horse needs further or cut in the ground.
 
I wouldn't have thought their priority from a stud point of view was to win the Derby either, romantic though it is, any more than it's a *priority* for Coolmore, for reasons which Sheikh points out
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If the Derby isn't a priority for Sheikh Mohammed, then why did he risk his most loved (and best) horse in it, and then a few years later risk that same horse's only real shot at continuing his legacy in the race?

If Sheikh Mohammed doesn't consider middle distance pedigrees to be a priority in his breeding operations, why has he bought all of the best sons of Galileo, Montjeu and Monsun that he can get his hands on?
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Apr 21 2008, 11:03 PM
The point Bolger made, and it's a good one, is that the Derby is no longer for all its prestige and mystique what drives eventual stud values. And that's the game these people are in, for better or worse
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Try asking one of "these people", namely John Magnier, what single race he most wants to win every year.
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Breeders Cup Classic.
 
Coolcullen is on an upland area, which makes a difference at this time of year, especially in a spring as cold as this one has been. Most, but not all, of his horses at the Curragh ten days ago were quite backward in their coats.
 
Luke, Your right, slipped my mind and even more curious decision to go to France and hope for fast ground, it rained just before the race and he was caught near the line.

On a personal level John Magnier probably does love a Derby winner (who wouldn't) he also loves a winner at Cheltenham and Galway. On a commercial level the Guineas and the races over 1m and 1m2f are the priorities .

Galileo was the successor to Sadlers that they where waiting for, he throws speed as well as stamina. I would suggest that Montjeu's position as a flat stallion is precarious and point to Scorpion who has gone straight to NH stud as an indication of this.
 
The point Bolger made, and it's a good one, is that the Derby is no longer for all its prestige and mystique what drives eventual stud values. And that's the game these people are in, for better or worse
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Some more than others, but i cannot believe for one second that Sheik M would take a shorter distance group one (the ecilpse?) over The Derby simply because of possible stud values

Whatever you think of Godolphin, they still harbour enough love for the sport to lift their eyes from the balance sheet once in a while
 
Originally posted by clivex@Apr 22 2008, 10:01 AM
The point Bolger made, and it's a good one, is that the Derby is no longer for all its prestige and mystique what drives eventual stud values. And that's the game these people are in, for better or worse
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Some more than others, but i cannot believe for one second that Sheik M would take a shorter distance group one (the ecilpse?) over The Derby simply because of possible stud values

Whatever you think of Godolphin, they still harbour enough love for the sport to lift their eyes from the balance sheet once in a while
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The Sheikh’s priorities have changed some what (as highlighted by retiring all the top class 3 year olds in America last year) in recent years and a greater emphasis is certainly being put on stud values.

But I think people are reading too much into this…..New Approach not running is nothing against the Derby itself….I really think it is simply the horse not being suited to the likely demands (physically and mentally) of the race. For instance, the same connections had Teofilo and was due to run in the Derby but for injury.
 
I don't think with Sheikh M it's about the money it's about the bigger race and beating Coolmore.I do think he is a sportsman though.
 
Luke - I'd concede the BC Classic as being up there, no question.

Sheikh:

On a personal level John Magnier probably does love a Derby winner (who wouldn't)
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Jim Bolger, apparantly.

On a commercial level the Guineas and the races over 1m and 1m2f are the priorities .
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10f, sure, once the Classics are done with. Fact is, the horses they stand that they campaigned over 10-12f (e.g. Galileo, Montjeu, Dylan Thomas, Hurricane Run) generally have much higher fees than those they campaigned over 8-10f (e.g. Rock Of Gibraltar, Excellent Art, Oratorio).

I would suggest that Montjeu's position as a flat stallion is precarious and point to Scorpion who has gone straight to NH stud as an indication of this.
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Scorpion has gone to the NH stud because of his own race record and staying family, not simply because he's by Montjeu.

Montjeu currently commands their highest publically quoted fee.

High Chaparral is in a far more precarious position, and the single biggest reason for that has nothing to do with him being a Derby winner, and everything to do with his paucity of winners so far.
 
But I think people are reading too much into this…..New Approach not running is nothing against the Derby itself….I really think it is simply the horse not being suited to the likely demands (physically and mentally) of the race
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Thats about right
 
If that was the case, why not say so? Instead of making it sound like he'd rather win the Irish Guineas?
 
Perhaps because it would be acknowledging a weakness ?

But the statement was very strange..i must say. No one is knocking the Irish classics by saying, who would really believe that?
 
Galileo proved his speed when beaten a neck by fantastic light over 1m2f in the Irish Champion and has proven his abilty to get fast horses.

Authorized proved his speed winning the eclipse and juddmonte and I think will make it.

Dylan won two Irish Champs over 1m2f.

Hurricane run and Scorpion are very like their sire, a stayer and bred to be that way,that is why Hurricane will be sold abroad or join Scorpion.

Breeders need horses that can produce speed over 1m to 1m2f.You don't see Derby winners going on to run in the leger anymore, they drop in distance to prove their speed to the breeders.

I wouldn't give much credence to advertised stud fees but if you like here are the advertised fees of the last three Derby winners

Authorized 25k
Motivator 15k
Sir Percy 8k (actually this fella looks outstanding value if your breed to race)

Those are there advertised prices on the bubble.

I agree re High Chaparral, that would be a shame he was a smashing race horse.
 
We're not disagreeing then - as I said, they worry about the speed once they've proved the stamina.
 
Originally posted by Sheikh@Apr 22 2008, 11:16 AM



Authorized proved his speed winning the eclipse and juddmonte and I think will make it.
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:D Notnowcato really was the most anonymous multiple G1 winner ever wasn`t he.
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Apr 22 2008, 10:22 AM
We're not disagreeing then - as I said, they worry about the speed once they've proved the stamina.
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Gareth I think it's the other way around, always space for fast horses at stud the same is not true for stayers.

Poor old 'notnow it's hard game to get a bit of respect in shrug::
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Apr 22 2008, 10:27 AM



High Chaparral is in a far more precarious position, and the single biggest reason for that has nothing to do with him being a Derby winner, and everything to do with his paucity of winners so far.
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Isn`t this all a bit premature seeing as his first crop are still 3yo`s?
 
Originally posted by Euronymous+Apr 22 2008, 10:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Euronymous @ Apr 22 2008, 10:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sheikh@Apr 22 2008, 11:16 AM



Authorized proved his speed winning the eclipse and juddmonte and I think will make it.
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:D Notnowcato really was the most anonymous multiple G1 winner ever wasn`t he. [/b][/quote]
No. That would be Scorpion
 
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