New Whip Rules

I got it, if hundreds didn't! Well, that's what Hughesie was implying - rogue types will have the blinkers on tout suit and awa' the noo, and if it stops the Dettori/Rewilding and Maguire/Ballabriggs publicity, so much the better. A good point about using more genuine stallions - I'm all for a ratings standard for them, anyway, from attitude to unsoundness.
 
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Nobody noticed anything wrong with the Rewilding ride until there was a replay. It was a fine piece of riding and a very exciting race, the sort of thing that we probably won't see now because of this new rule.
 
If a jockey has used up his number of strikes with the whip and the horse hangs causing interference, will he still be done for not keeping the horse straight?
 
Soary Stars said:
So, if they couldn't they wouldn't is what you're saying.

bollocks.
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They hang for various reasons Soary - tiredness, pressure, slight injury, favouring one leg over the other, they see the entrance to the parade ring, something catches their eye, camber of the track and some just hang because they want to.

To say horses just hang because they are under pressure is too simplistic.
 
Ruby Walsh in Today's Examiner

"what worries me is that I will have to accept defeat when I could be doing something about it. As a competitive sportsman that saddens me.It goes against my whole ethos as a jockey that such is going to be the case. All my competitive instincts tell me this is wrong. When I am riding I use my legs and my body and only go for the whip as a last resort. It is inevitable that these rules will be broken, not intentionally but they will be broken. I know they are under pressure in England and probably something has to be done but I don't think this is the answer.
The stipendary stewards in both Britain and Ireland are first class and well capable of legislating on use of the whip which is over the top and unacceptable. I certainly hope the Irish authorities do not follow suit."


At last a jockey with the balls to call it as is.
 
On The Bridle said:
They hang for various reasons Soary - tiredness, pressure, slight injury, favouring one leg over the other, they see the entrance to the parade ring, something catches their eye, camber of the track and some just hang because they want to.

To say horses just hang because they are under pressure is too simplistic.
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Thanks for the decent reply, OTB.

Would you need to use the whip to correct all these?
Would it depend on the vigour of the hanging, so to speak?
 
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On The Bridle said:
Ruby Walsh in Today's Examiner

"what worries me is that I will have to accept defeat when I could be doing something about it. As a competitive sportsman that saddens me.It goes against my whole ethos as a jockey that such is going to be the case. All my competitive instincts tell me this is wrong. When I am riding I use my legs and my body and only go for the whip as a last resort. It is inevitable that these rules will be broken, not intentionally but they will be broken. I know they are under pressure in England and probably something has to be done but I don't think this is the answer.
The stipendary stewards in both Britain and Ireland are first class and well capable of legislating on use of the whip which is over the top and unacceptable. I certainly hope the Irish authorities do not follow suit."


At last a jockey with the balls to call it as is.
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That is all true, and he is 100% right, but then he and other jockeys abuse the rules to make every effort to win big races (that knacker on Ballabriggs was a disgrace).. Different rules are needed, whereby if a steward feels you have broken the whip rules (shouldn't necessarily be a number imho), you are disqualified.

Do people on here think Rewilding was abused in the Prince of Wales? I don't. I do think Cheltenham tight finishes are particularly bad though.
 
Soary Stars said:
Thanks for the decent reply, OTB.

Would you need to use the whip to correct all these?
Would it depend on the vigour of the hanging, so to speak?
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Probably to both - look at a scenario where in the last furlong the jockey has used his whip five times but his/her mount still hangs across and causes half the field to be impeded?? Does he try and correct the horse and run the risk of getting a whip ban or leave the horse knock half the field and get done for careless riding.

My overriding sense of this is that the constant tightening of the whip rules and the strict enforceability of a specified number of whip strikes is trying to provide a mathematical solution to a problem (if a problem / percieved problem actually exists) to a qualitative issue. This in essence will lead to more issues than it is trying to fix.

The notion that we punish people for trying their best goes against everything I stand for.
 
I'd expect discretion to be used where a horse is hanging dangerously - duty of the jockey to correct that & not count the strokes either.
This should be obvious to the stewards, who should be crying blue murder if the jockey didn't take corrective action.
 
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Soary Stars said:
I'd expect discretion to be used where a horse is hanging dangerously - duty of the jockey to correct that & not count the strokes either.
This should be obvious to the stewards, who should be crying blue murder if the jockey didn't take corrective action.
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Is discretion not removed by the absolute number in the rule book??
 
Hamm said:
That is all true, and he is 100% right, but then he and other jockeys abuse the rules to make every effort to win big races (that knacker on Ballabriggs was a disgrace).. Different rules are needed, whereby if a steward feels you have broken the whip rules (shouldn't necessarily be a number imho), you are disqualified.

Do people on here think Rewilding was abused in the Prince of Wales? I don't. I do think Cheltenham tight finishes are particularly bad though.
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NH finishes seem worse as the horses look like they are in slow motion.. I agree on the FD ride - one of the best this year - I thought the JM ride was a very strong ride maybe borderline - but again it looked worse that it actually was in reality due to the slow motion effect / hot day etc... This is exacerbated in Cheltenham due to the hill and the championship pace (huge generalisation).
 
On The Bridle said:
NH finishes seem worse as the horses look like they are in slow motion.. I agree on the FD ride - one of the best this year - I thought the JM ride was a very strong ride maybe borderline - but again it looked worse that it actually was in reality due to the slow motion effect / hot day etc... This is exacerbated in Cheltenham due to the hill and the championship pace (huge generalisation).
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I think you are being overly sympathetic with those words but wouldn't you say jockeys should take the factors you mentioned into account?

I have nor problem with the likes of Ruby, Geraghty et al trying their best to win; I have a HUGE problem with the likes of Maguire, who is an old fashioned type, who sees nothing wrong with his behaviour with the whip.
 
Jockeys have reins for steering.

Some horses duck away from the stick, hence the need to use it with the correct hand and not cause interference. But the stick is not a steering mechanism.
 
Ah yes and by the way, just a question here about one of the top jockey's knowledge of what a good whipping does .... :mad:

Why exactly did Frankie whip Rewilding 27 times?

Because it eventually fecking hurts, could it be?

(Non-tree-huggers feel free to use a dictionary re 'hurts'.)
 
Yes it is Grey. Why else would a jockey change hands? DMCain is on twitter again today pointing out how many winning horses in the past week would have been effected by the new rule. Some great rides since Friday, that will be punished now.
 
If a jockey uses up his quota of strikes with the whip, before the race is in its last 3f - the horse was struggling but gradually stayed on to get into contention - and get into a position where it can go and wins its race, but the jockey can't use the whip anymore and the horse finishes second to a strong drive with the whip from another jockey, does the one who couldn't use his whip get done for being a non-tryer?

Also, imagine if you backed said horse.
 
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At the end of the day, if I or anyone else for that matter, had a bet on a horse which didnt win because the jockey stop whiping due to the quota, it will stop/deter people from betting on this sport. Remember the sport is funded by gambling.

IF the punter stop punting because of the whip rule than this rule is another hammer blow to the sport. You wont see this rule introduce in HK or Japan when millions spe their hard earn on betting on the horses, will be outrage if jockey stop whipping when challenging for the win.

Im fed up of people in charge of racing trying to please the minority outside of racing who only goes to the races once or twice a year or have occasional bets. They are neglecting the core audience who re getting more and more disillusional everyday. There was a prescott special on RUK recently where he talked about hunting, the ban and its effects. He said the animlas which were hunted now live in a much worser life and their population has gone down, because when hunting wasnt banned, they used to subsidise the farmers to leave some food out for the animals instead of shooting them. Now.....the farmers just get rid of it competely. The people in the sport are, majority are horse lovers, no one, none of them would like to see horses hurt but they are bred to race, if an extar crack gives them the encouragement it needs, let them crack away.

Frankie's effort on Rewilding was one of the best ride he did all year, bearing in mind he only rides couple of 'good' races a year anyway. The horse kept responding to the whip therefore I dont see the problem of it, also Frankie dosnet 'whip' above shoulder or anything like that, he is less harsh on the whip than many jockeys. I only have problem when jockeyys whip horses when its out of contention.

As a sidenote, thank god Hardy Eustace, BRave Inca the likes have been retired. If this rule was introduced a long time ago, they would have never won a race and our racing memories would have been a lot poorer for it.
 
OTB said:
Yes it is Grey. Why else would a jockey change hands? DMCain is on twitter again today pointing out how many winning horses in the past week would have been effected by the new rule. Some great rides since Friday, that will be punished now.
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Why change hands? Because use of the whip in the wrong hand will cause a hanging horse to hang even more.

If a horse is hanging to the right, towards other horses, the whip should not be used in the left hand. Switching it to the right hand should help it to stop going right. Either it will straighten, if the jockey is lucky, or start hanging in the other direction.

But a horse is less likely to hang in the first place if no whip is used.
 
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Grey said:
Why change hands? Because use of the whip in the wrong hand will cause a hanging horse to hang even more.

If a horse is hanging to the right, towards other horses, the whip should not be used in the left hand. Switching it to the right hand should help it to stop going right. Either it will straighten, if the jockey is lucky, or start hanging in the other direction.

But a horse is less likely to hang in the first place if no whip is used.
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Wait till you do your dough on a yoke that could have won with a little stronger handling. As Will states above the pandering to outsiders who don't give a damn about racing's survival is what is going to put off people like you and me who love the sport.
 
Wait till you do your dough on a yoke that could have won with a little stronger handling.
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That is a separate argument, and anyway it happens all the time, especially in races for younger horses and early season races.

I'm just pointing out that claims the whip is a navigational aid are specious.

In the longer run I think people will get used to reduced use of the whip and the breed will evolve. I don't think the new rules are the answer, though, because they still haven't addressed the conflict of interest between owner and jockey about what to do in a tight finish. In fact, the new rules only heighten that conflict.

I also think the simplicity of the rules has been taken too far. A five-strike limit after the last fence at say Taunton is not so restrictive, but tracks like Aintree and Kelso have a run-in of about two furlongs, and it doesn't seem logical to apply the same limit there.

And by the way, racing is no exception when it comes to gentler handling of animals. I remember cattle and sheep getting thrashed along the North Circular Road to the docks in Dublin when I was a kid, but nobody would be allowed do that now.
 
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