Niel, Foy and Vermeille

Absolute balls thanks to the tactical riding on VOLVER, the supposed pacemaker, which directly contributed to DA RE MI's disqual. I am sick to death of these nags being thrown in to spoil the party and not one is actually in the race to make any sort of attempt to win it. They're not ridden so as to obtain the best possible placing, and yet no-one seems to think this contravenes the Rules of Racing. SEA THE STARS didn't need one, and no horse of real ability and jockey with a brain in his skull does, either. They're a blight and a pox on racing, and if I were Gosden I'd be apoplectic with fury after today's debacle.
 
SEA THE STARS didn't need one
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Sea The Stars has directly benefited from pacemakers this season. Whilst he probably would have won his races anyway, we wouldn't be talking about him being in the same league as the likes of Dancing Brave without the fast pace set by pacemakers in the Eclipse and Irish Champion

and no horse of real ability [..] does, either.
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Completely disagree - there are some great horses to whom a fast pace was absolutely vital in order for them to show their best form.
 
I don't think Spanish Moon will win the Arc but he has a great chance of placing. He is definately a lot better than I gave him credit for a the start of the season.
 
Melendez - I know! I ought to be calmer about this, but there are too many instances of these feckers deliberately keeping in or keeping back the REAL contenders.

Gareth - fine, a forum's all about opinions, and that's mine, and that's yours. You say that about SEA THE STARS - did you notice he was trained (noticing the shots of his early training in the feature on AOB recently) in a running martingale? Perhaps you did, perhaps you didn't. I could say that horses with real ability don't need artificial aids, too, but obviously many of them do, in order to correct faults of carriage, which affect their action and thus their optimum (optimal?) performance. I don't think you can say he wouldn't be what he is today without pacemakers, since that's virtually inarguable. It's like saying he wouldn't be what he is today without his sire or his dam's genes - who knows? He won where it really mattered without the bastid animals - probably because his JOCKEY actually understands pace!

Mel - I'm off for a lie-down and a cuppa now. At my age, such stress is unwise...
 
davidjohnson said:
If Spanish Moon wins the Arc, I shall bare my arse to all and sundry on this forum. He beat an unfit non-trier having been allowed to dictate.
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I don't think even the connections think they can win the Arc with this one. They've said they want to go for a race they can win next time out and that would probably rule out running in the Arc.
 
Possibly, but i certainly don't think it would be tilting at windmills. He's run to a rating low 120s yesterday, and trainer acknowledged he had a setback 2 weeks ago and was in need of the race. With that, and the fact he's clearly still improving, he could be capable of hitting the frame.
 
He'll probably have to go across the pond then, Canadian International or one of the Grade 1 BC Turf preps.
 
That's right. They have mentioned the Canadian International, Hong Kong, Japan and Dubai, rather than Paris.
 
Hamm said:
Possibly, but i certainly don't think it would be tilting at windmills. He's run to a rating low 120s yesterday, and trainer acknowledged he had a setback 2 weeks ago and was in need of the race. With that, and the fact he's clearly still improving, he could be capable of hitting the frame.
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I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But he seems he is unlikely to take part.
 
I'm not sure Vision D'Etat is as good at a mile and a half as over a mile and a quarter.
 
i actually thought it was a good enough performance by spanish moon. he saw the trip out in a very good time - in fact he ran the fastest trial - and did not even see the whip. he had a quite severe problem and this was a good pipeopener. I am not saying its arc winning form but if sts wont turn up, its far more open and stranger things have happend. even the arc throws up the odd long-shot, and this is certainly a talented, and somehow still improving horse. maybe he did leave too much energy fighting british stall handlers beforehand ;) ?
 
Vision D'Etat can be a bit of a rogue at times too, I think he's pretty over rated and I agree about him being better over 1m2f. I think it'd be a shame not to have a crack at the Arc, take the front two out and he's in with a shout. It's ridiculous that Sariska, Getaway, Youmzain and Da Re Mi are all ahead of him in the betting.
 
Good article by Greg Wood on this today
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/sep/15/horse-racing

Also, this highlights even more how crazy it was for Dylan Thomas to keep the Arc, and the only thing you could think of is that it was DTs connections that made the difference in the minds of the Longchamp stewards. (I backed Youmzain at 95 for a decent amount so it's something I'll probably never get over :D)

Lets hope the Stewards aren't involved in just under 3 weeks time.
 
I don't agree that the interference was minimal but would be prepared accept that the pacemaker dropping back caused the manoeuver, by Fortune, that led to the interference.
 
Wood states

'The interference caused by Jimmy Fortune's switch to the inside was so minimal that it is arguable whether a British panel would have bothered to hold an inquiry.'

I'd really love to hear that argument. I'd be amzed if he didn't pick up a careless riding ban for the maouevre he attempted on Sunday if he'd have done it in the UK. The only difference is that he would have been allowed to keep the race because his filly was the winner on merit.
 
davidjohnson said:
Wood states

'The interference caused by Jimmy Fortune's switch to the inside was so minimal that it is arguable whether a British panel would have bothered to hold an inquiry.'

I'd really love to hear that argument. I'd be amzed if he didn't pick up a careless riding ban for the maouevre he attempted on Sunday if he'd have done it in the UK. The only difference is that he would have been allowed to keep the race because his filly was the winner on merit.
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The two things that struck me were (a) the jockey on the German horse did not stop riding (b) she faded close home and was done for third for that reason and not due to any interference .
 
Latest is that the Lloyd Webbers are going to contest the decision 'very strongly' and I damn well hope they get a result. French Stewards are shameless - this happens at small French meetings (inc jumps) even more than at the big ones; they will throw out a foreign horse - esp UK trained - on any pretext
 
Headstrong said:
Latest is that the Lloyd Webbers are going to contest the decision 'very strongly' and I damn well hope they get a result. French Stewards are shameless - this happens at small French meetings (inc jumps) even more than at the big ones; they will throw out a foreign horse - esp UK trained - on any pretext
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I'm surprised by that comment from you Headstrong; does no one other than me remember when the stewards at Longchamp disqualified Sagace, the French trained hot favourite, in favour of Jeremy Tree's Rainbow Quest? How many English trained horses have been disqualified after winning the Arc?
 
I don't remember that tbh, I was no doubt abroad! But I've been told some dark tales by trainers who had some very rum experiences with the French stewards, inc one who was shown a 'photo finish' - half an hour after the race which he swears he won by a clear margin - in which there was no winning post!
 
Some would say English stewards are shameless given the high number of blatant non-triers they fail to spot.

You race in France then you live by their rules, according to the rules Fortune caused interference and as such DRM was thrown out.
 
I wonder what the point of these posts are myself. If you have been told something by a trainer and are posting as much, then be as kind to post who exactly said what, or otherwise what is the point of posting something so ambiguous which adds nothing to the discussion?
 
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