Northern Rock
- Thread starter Aldaniti
- Start date
K
Kathy
Guest
No one needs to have sat banking exams to be able to see what has been going on for the last year. Those in the financial sector seems to have a vested interested in repeatedly saying... crisis? what crisis?
Try re reading this whole thread when you have nothing better to do.
Try re reading this whole thread when you have nothing better to do.
K
Kathy
Guest
Re read the thread, TS! I know you still probably blame me for all the financial woes in this country as evidently my rumours started this financial crisis.
People in the financial sector (and the government) have a vested interest in trying to convince people that there is no crisis - the same way you told me there wasn't nearly a year ago. Please don't let a few facts that are all in the public domain get in the way of your paper thin arguments though.
People in the financial sector (and the government) have a vested interest in trying to convince people that there is no crisis - the same way you told me there wasn't nearly a year ago. Please don't let a few facts that are all in the public domain get in the way of your paper thin arguments though.
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K
Kathy
Guest
I am not a Gravedancer - I am a realist.
The government will now do anything to stop HBOS going under. Who else can Gordon Clown phone to overt this lastest crisis? He hasn't that many friends left.
If Lloyds TSB fail to bail out HBOS - and there are competition reasons why this may fail - what next? Anyone who thinks the Bank Of England, the FSA, and some of those that work in the financial sector and the government do not have a vested interested in desperately trying to sound upbeat at the moment are sadly mistaken. We've seen the boom now you are seeing the bust - and the greedy banks are paying the price.
I feel desperately sorry for the investors and savers caught up in yet another financial crisis. The financial sector in this country are (for the most part) a mess a and whist it's too late to stop this latest disaster unfolding I hope they all learn lessons in the future. Somehow I doubt they will.
The government will now do anything to stop HBOS going under. Who else can Gordon Clown phone to overt this lastest crisis? He hasn't that many friends left.
If Lloyds TSB fail to bail out HBOS - and there are competition reasons why this may fail - what next? Anyone who thinks the Bank Of England, the FSA, and some of those that work in the financial sector and the government do not have a vested interested in desperately trying to sound upbeat at the moment are sadly mistaken. We've seen the boom now you are seeing the bust - and the greedy banks are paying the price.
I feel desperately sorry for the investors and savers caught up in yet another financial crisis. The financial sector in this country are (for the most part) a mess a and whist it's too late to stop this latest disaster unfolding I hope they all learn lessons in the future. Somehow I doubt they will.
*Kisses pension good bye*
At least by putting it on a horse you get to have some choice in the matter!
The problem is TS as an ordinary Joe I do not have the knowledgw of the head of the FSA and therein lies the problem. All I know is there are big issues and people should be concerned, I have no idea which bank may go next if any but not knowing the finance industry as well as you makes me uneasy. Also I expect there are millions more like me.
Tout Seul
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 2,628
Don't get me wrong! There are many difficulties ahead and unless there is positive and radical action from Governments and authorities throughout the world there will be horrendous repercussions for the UK which is so reliant on financial services. We manufacture bugger all and it is financial services that keep the country afloat.
There are crap banks and crap management throughout the sector and there is huge pressure on the successful players to keep on going even beyond their own judgement.It had to end in tears and was the main reason I left. I'll demonstrate with some basic maths in a later post. However I find it particularly galling when people who don't understand articles written by journalists who themselves don't fully understand ( and who like flashy headlines) proceed to pound on good quality businesses like HBOS.If one does the homework you can find out that of its many billions of assets HBOS has a otal sub prime exposure of around 300 million. I do not know for certain but would guestimate that its hit on that tiny proportion will be around 20 to 25%-ie naff all in the scheme of things.
A little further research will show that HBOS's loss bad debt rate overall is around 1% or less. Remember HBOS was one of the early players in the mortgage market. Many of its borrowers have had mortgages for a long time and have paid off a substantial amount and have houses worth considerably more than than they cost.
Even the articles posted on this thread pointed out that HBOS had been offered funding for its vehicle company. Believe me if the market thinks there is the slightest chance a bank will go bust there is no money available at any price.
If I find that galling I am desperately saddened that many thousands of small shareholders ( Joe Public) in a perfectly viable company have lost an awful lot of money because other Joes ( depositors) have shown that they would rather listen to a deliberately started set of rumours than heed the statement by the head of the second most important regulatory authority in the world as would some who believe their knowledge to be superior to that of the Head of the FSA. Not only that but the long term result is that there will be near monopoly conditions in the UK mortgage market and Joe Public will lose out again.
Name and shame the speculators and then shun them, make sure your L.A., your pension fund, your Trade Union does not invest with them!
EDIT. FWIW if I were Prime Minister I would have gathered a large group of the great and good and put the following proposal to them. ' If you want to be of great use to your country and to make a pot of money get into the market tomorrow affter the hedge funds have sold off the shares that they don't have and buy,buy, buy. The hedgies will have to pay an exorbitant price to buy back shares and will suffer a bloody nose. You will make money on behalf of your country and I will be appreciative.'
There are crap banks and crap management throughout the sector and there is huge pressure on the successful players to keep on going even beyond their own judgement.It had to end in tears and was the main reason I left. I'll demonstrate with some basic maths in a later post. However I find it particularly galling when people who don't understand articles written by journalists who themselves don't fully understand ( and who like flashy headlines) proceed to pound on good quality businesses like HBOS.If one does the homework you can find out that of its many billions of assets HBOS has a otal sub prime exposure of around 300 million. I do not know for certain but would guestimate that its hit on that tiny proportion will be around 20 to 25%-ie naff all in the scheme of things.
A little further research will show that HBOS's loss bad debt rate overall is around 1% or less. Remember HBOS was one of the early players in the mortgage market. Many of its borrowers have had mortgages for a long time and have paid off a substantial amount and have houses worth considerably more than than they cost.
Even the articles posted on this thread pointed out that HBOS had been offered funding for its vehicle company. Believe me if the market thinks there is the slightest chance a bank will go bust there is no money available at any price.
If I find that galling I am desperately saddened that many thousands of small shareholders ( Joe Public) in a perfectly viable company have lost an awful lot of money because other Joes ( depositors) have shown that they would rather listen to a deliberately started set of rumours than heed the statement by the head of the second most important regulatory authority in the world as would some who believe their knowledge to be superior to that of the Head of the FSA. Not only that but the long term result is that there will be near monopoly conditions in the UK mortgage market and Joe Public will lose out again.
Name and shame the speculators and then shun them, make sure your L.A., your pension fund, your Trade Union does not invest with them!
EDIT. FWIW if I were Prime Minister I would have gathered a large group of the great and good and put the following proposal to them. ' If you want to be of great use to your country and to make a pot of money get into the market tomorrow affter the hedge funds have sold off the shares that they don't have and buy,buy, buy. The hedgies will have to pay an exorbitant price to buy back shares and will suffer a bloody nose. You will make money on behalf of your country and I will be appreciative.'
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Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
I'm largely with Tout Seul on this.
A few spivs are looking to make a killing, and a perfectly viable and successful business is forced into take-over on the strength of the speculation.
Where I do take issue with TS, is his/her contention that the head of the FSA is some kind of authority on matters of fiscal prurience.
The current financial crisis is largely down to the utter incompetency of the FSA to regulate the market correctly, by allowing bedrocks of the UK economy to carry such outrageous debt/risk in the first place.
Such institutions may be playing within the confines of the 'rules', but they are/were playing for the kind of high-stakes that should have alerted the FSA, long before the credit-crunch hit home hard.
The regulatory body is essentially part of the club, which is never a good thing - we only need to look to the fuckwits in the JC/BHA to suss that.
A few spivs are looking to make a killing, and a perfectly viable and successful business is forced into take-over on the strength of the speculation.
Where I do take issue with TS, is his/her contention that the head of the FSA is some kind of authority on matters of fiscal prurience.
The current financial crisis is largely down to the utter incompetency of the FSA to regulate the market correctly, by allowing bedrocks of the UK economy to carry such outrageous debt/risk in the first place.
Such institutions may be playing within the confines of the 'rules', but they are/were playing for the kind of high-stakes that should have alerted the FSA, long before the credit-crunch hit home hard.
The regulatory body is essentially part of the club, which is never a good thing - we only need to look to the fuckwits in the JC/BHA to suss that.
trudij
Senior Jockey
I dont really understand much of it at all, but your comment about mortgages has rung some bells with me TS - Weve got a Halifax (HBOS!) mortgage, have had it for years,and the amount outstanding is nowhere near the value of the property.
In Short - we arent that worried about things right now - are we being naiive(sp!) ????
In Short - we arent that worried about things right now - are we being naiive(sp!) ????
BlazingWalker
At the Start
ermm,an interesting debate/argument. Most of what goes on,either on this thread or in the real world goes over my head. I am not an homeowner (missed that boat & tooooo expensive now) ,I don't earn amounts with lots of 000's on the end per year (recently on Jeremy Vine's show a couple said they didn't consider themselves wealthy earning £30,000 each a year-they should try living in the real world) & I tend to use my bank account for bills/standing order/DD's etc as they are robbing swines.
All I really know is that whatever happens Mr Bank man isn't going to say 'Well, having reviewed your account Mr Peace we are going to clear your existing debt as we do in the Third World' albeit that my debt is considerably less!
Anybody who as ever heard Gil Scott Heron will remember the line 'The Arabs used to be in the Third world,they've bought the 2nd one & put a firm down payment on the 1st!!'
These are my (probably under-educated) opinion's.
All I really know is that whatever happens Mr Bank man isn't going to say 'Well, having reviewed your account Mr Peace we are going to clear your existing debt as we do in the Third World' albeit that my debt is considerably less!
Anybody who as ever heard Gil Scott Heron will remember the line 'The Arabs used to be in the Third world,they've bought the 2nd one & put a firm down payment on the 1st!!'
These are my (probably under-educated) opinion's.
K
Kathy
Guest
Thank goodness a few commonsense people have finally joined in with this debate which has resulted at last in Tout Soul admitting THERE IS A PROBLEM that I have been highlighting for months and yet I kept getting told I basically know nothing about the financial state of this country. OK, it only took 15 pages and some flowery language, some financial jargon and even blaming me for some of this countries financial problems along with a few insults 
- but we may have got there in the end.
- but we may have got there in the end.
M
martin
Guest
I think it's a bit bigger than a few spivs making a few quid out of companies potentially going bust - There's no smoke without fire, and it was known and publicised long before Monday morning that lehman brothers was having trouble, hence even a mug like me could have got involved.
Footballers taking millions, rap stars turing into property moguls, it all adds up to a bunch of wankers taking more than their fair share in my opinion.
Footballers taking millions, rap stars turing into property moguls, it all adds up to a bunch of wankers taking more than their fair share in my opinion.
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K
Kathy
Guest
HBOS having problems was mentioned pages back on this thread Martin, and look at the reaction if got from those evidently in the know! Barclays possibly having problems also mentioned.....I was making it all up evidently.
I am not pleased at having been proved right on a few things but as I have money tied up in various banks and shares it is prudent for me to keep an eye on what is going on in the financial markets albeit there was a lot of smoke and mirrors going on.
This government could not allow another Northern Rock to happen which is why the merger between HBOS and Lloyds TSB is evidently going ahead. A few favours called in today no doubt by Gordon Clown and his Darling.
Is it the end.... I doubt it but at least the next few days may be a little less turbulent than the last two.
I am not pleased at having been proved right on a few things but as I have money tied up in various banks and shares it is prudent for me to keep an eye on what is going on in the financial markets albeit there was a lot of smoke and mirrors going on.
This government could not allow another Northern Rock to happen which is why the merger between HBOS and Lloyds TSB is evidently going ahead. A few favours called in today no doubt by Gordon Clown and his Darling.
Is it the end.... I doubt it but at least the next few days may be a little less turbulent than the last two.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
The Government should be taking these fat cat bosses to the fucking cleaners. The cunt that ran Lehman brothers trousered 22 million dollars last year.
Somewhere up there I reckon Karl Marx is quietly smiling to himself.
Somewhere up there I reckon Karl Marx is quietly smiling to himself.
M
martin
Guest
They've been dancing in the wishing well while the rest of us ordinary folk have been burning in flames for a long time - if only Nick Egg was the solution....
Kathy, i've no doubt an anaylitical, investigative person like yourself sniffed this all out a mile away, thats whats great about forums like these, you alway get people giving theories that the ordinary media are prepared to give.
If Goldman Sachs gets in trouble I wonder how much the American government will want their taxpayers to bail that one out.
Broadly speaking i'm in favour of free markets, the trouble is ours and the americans economy was based upon "free credit" until this all came home to roost. I just hope we get through it, a change of government both here and in the U.S would be refreshing and might give people hope.
Kathy, i've no doubt an anaylitical, investigative person like yourself sniffed this all out a mile away, thats whats great about forums like these, you alway get people giving theories that the ordinary media are prepared to give.
If Goldman Sachs gets in trouble I wonder how much the American government will want their taxpayers to bail that one out.
Broadly speaking i'm in favour of free markets, the trouble is ours and the americans economy was based upon "free credit" until this all came home to roost. I just hope we get through it, a change of government both here and in the U.S would be refreshing and might give people hope.
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Tout Seul
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 2,628
Kathy you are so desperate to be right that you ignore the facts. I have recognised the problems from an early stage and have earned good money advising some institutions as to the best methods to deal with the problem . When I pointed out that I had called some events correctly you accused me of back slapping, I also pointed out that unless something radical was done we in the UK would have very serious long term problems. I would say that that constitutes recognising that there is a problem but you wouldn't it seems unless you haven't bothered to read it.
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You own the other hand regularly highlight with relish the problems at Barclays, that little weak bank, so endangered that the Fed turned to it to save Lehmans just this week. Mind you it did have the odd few billion to spare to pick up the good bits of Lehmans for a steal.
I have put up reasoned opinions on events as they unfold , myviews as to possible actions to be taken and a warning as the possible outcome if this is not managed properly. I have criticised poor management and praised good. I surely wont call every thing right but I'll keep trying to interpret what is going on as far as I see it.To that extent people can make a judgement as to whether my opinions are valid or otherwise.
I have yet to see much from you that isn't rumour, copying of parts of quotations without analysis, and 'they've got it in for me' protestations.
What do you want to be proved right about? Do you think that HMG should let any financial instituition go under without support regardless of the consequences? Do you want or expect lots of depositors to lose money to teach them a lesson? How do you think HMG could better handle this situation?
BTW. Lloyds have been hunting HBOS for several years and getting negative noises from the authorities( it's in the archives) they are really enjoying picking up such a good business so cheap with no intervention from the Authorities. Stuff the share holders! Stuff Joe Public! No added incentive from HMG required.
.
You own the other hand regularly highlight with relish the problems at Barclays, that little weak bank, so endangered that the Fed turned to it to save Lehmans just this week. Mind you it did have the odd few billion to spare to pick up the good bits of Lehmans for a steal.
I have put up reasoned opinions on events as they unfold , myviews as to possible actions to be taken and a warning as the possible outcome if this is not managed properly. I have criticised poor management and praised good. I surely wont call every thing right but I'll keep trying to interpret what is going on as far as I see it.To that extent people can make a judgement as to whether my opinions are valid or otherwise.
I have yet to see much from you that isn't rumour, copying of parts of quotations without analysis, and 'they've got it in for me' protestations.
What do you want to be proved right about? Do you think that HMG should let any financial instituition go under without support regardless of the consequences? Do you want or expect lots of depositors to lose money to teach them a lesson? How do you think HMG could better handle this situation?
BTW. Lloyds have been hunting HBOS for several years and getting negative noises from the authorities( it's in the archives) they are really enjoying picking up such a good business so cheap with no intervention from the Authorities. Stuff the share holders! Stuff Joe Public! No added incentive from HMG required.
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Thats a bit small minded Tout. Kathy, as she intimates repeatedly, is a financial wiz, and has a gift of foresight unseen since Nostradamus. Also, it's not that easy pressing the 'Ctrl C' and 'Ctrl V' keys at the same time and getting it right every time.
A little recognition would not go amiss.
I would love Kathy to recommend 10 equities to invest in for the next 12 months. I would be in there like a shot, me.
A little recognition would not go amiss.
I would love Kathy to recommend 10 equities to invest in for the next 12 months. I would be in there like a shot, me.
K
Kathy
Guest
Neither of you can help your snidey comments and does you no credit it all. I would expect nothing less from either of you to be honest.
By the way, An whatever happened to that financial thread you started months or was it years ago. You asked people to nominate certain shares/investments to follow, remember? You couldn't even keep that going for longer than about a couple of weeks could you so please don't start asking me for 10 equities to follow now - as you may have made yourself a few quid if you had followed my advice then.
As for TS, well - I give up. You continue to dig yourself a hole because you decided like so a few people on these racing forums to lock horns with me and then try to continually discredit me and now just can't stop. Well, you feel free to continue. It's quite entertaining to see what you are going to come out with next to be honest.
When both of you realise that a major part of my income comes from investment you may understand why I feel the need to know what is happening in the financial sector on a daily basis and yes, much of it I read in certain on line publications which proves that even someone like me is able to get some sort of a handle on what is happening without offering their CV and saying know more because they work in the financial sector and advise people as their line of work. I don't. Never said I do or that I did - and your sarcastic comment about passing my banking exams was plain laughable, TS.
Is it because those that work in finance think only they know what is going on and treat the majority of Joe Public as muppets. Afterall, it's Joe Public that has to pick up the bills when those that are meant to know.... clearly don't know or frankly just don't care.
By the way, An whatever happened to that financial thread you started months or was it years ago. You asked people to nominate certain shares/investments to follow, remember? You couldn't even keep that going for longer than about a couple of weeks could you so please don't start asking me for 10 equities to follow now - as you may have made yourself a few quid if you had followed my advice then.
As for TS, well - I give up. You continue to dig yourself a hole because you decided like so a few people on these racing forums to lock horns with me and then try to continually discredit me and now just can't stop. Well, you feel free to continue. It's quite entertaining to see what you are going to come out with next to be honest.
When both of you realise that a major part of my income comes from investment you may understand why I feel the need to know what is happening in the financial sector on a daily basis and yes, much of it I read in certain on line publications which proves that even someone like me is able to get some sort of a handle on what is happening without offering their CV and saying know more because they work in the financial sector and advise people as their line of work. I don't. Never said I do or that I did - and your sarcastic comment about passing my banking exams was plain laughable, TS.
Is it because those that work in finance think only they know what is going on and treat the majority of Joe Public as muppets. Afterall, it's Joe Public that has to pick up the bills when those that are meant to know.... clearly don't know or frankly just don't care.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Could I suggest to the moderators that it is perhaps time to close this thread.
K
Kathy
Guest
Thanks, Andrew.
I think it's OK, too. It got very personal against me earlier in the thread and no one thought about closing it then.
I think it's OK, too. It got very personal against me earlier in the thread and no one thought about closing it then.
Flagship uberalles
Journeyman
Now don't tell lies..
Personal sniping aside, I'm afraid I don't see your point Kathy (even after re-reading the whole thread) - Tout has presented his viewpoint and opinions in a consistent fashion IMHO.