Northern Rock

Darling David just phoned me so that I could let everyone on this forum know, Betsmate! :)











or..... :rolleyes:

It could be announced by Alistair Darling later today.... and Darling Dave didn't really call :( - well, not about that anyway. :D
 
Are the Government's certain of their legal footing on this one? Lawsuit on its way from the Shareholders?

It would be funny if they could prove that the government's own FSA were in some part culpable.
 
Originally posted by betsmate@Feb 17 2008, 04:24 PM
Are the Government's certain of their legal footing on this one? Lawsuit on its way from the Shareholders?

It would be funny if they could prove that the government's own FSA were in some part culpable.
Click to expand...
They are no doubt acting on the premise that since they got away with stealing Railtrack from its shareholders [on the basis moreover of a report which they knew to be dishonest], they can get away with this bit of larceny too, since there is now a legal precedent. Utterly shameless.

Those of us who excoriated the Govt for both allowing the whole NR shambles to happen - partly by encouraging a culture of reckless borrowing to shore up the economic figures - then propping up NR as a special case when the shite hit the fan, have been fully justified imo.

There are two things this Govt - I mean govt by NuLab since 1997 - totally lacks. One is basic competence, and the other is any vestige of common sense. The first is rarely found without the other.
 
If they hadn't the bank would have gone bust. That is exactly what was supposed to happen. They have been given an exception from the rules of a free market.
 
Yes, the bank would have gone bust. Everyone with savings (or a job with NR) would have been f*cked 2 months before Christmas. If this had had a ripple effect through the banking industry, the knock on effect to the economy could have been far worse than the tax payer shelling out £25bn.

I'm not saying the Govt have dealt with this well, but it would have been worse to let NR rot.
 
Does anyone think that HMG wanted to nationalise NR? Get real! They are doing this because the supposed rescue bids were in fact demands of a massive HMG guarantee and huge profits for bidders. F@ck the shareholders there is minimal value for them anyway and the demands come from Hedge funds who punted and got it wrong. Screw em!

From your overseas correspondent.
 
Originally posted by cricketfan@Feb 18 2008, 10:03 AM


I'm not saying the Govt have dealt with this well, but it would have been worse to let NR rot.
Click to expand...
Plus, all the private sector banks are moaning like feck about NRnow having an unfair advantage on the competition front. Boo cry cry Hoo.
 
There is little doubt in my mind that the Government had to move to act to safeguard NR. The consequences of not doing so would have been huge.

Equally like Tout Seul says, there is no question that they wanted to nationalise. It makes them a laughing stock.

Any contention for me lies in these points:

- How the FSA allowed the situation within NR to develop.
- How the Government allowed the market to drain of liquidity - a major reason behind NRs problems (America chose to inject funds directly, I believe Germany did something similar. HMG on the other hand dealt with consequence, not the cause)
- Whether the amount of time that HMG took to reach this decision actually prevented a workable private solution from being found.

Again like TS says, shareholders know the risk when they invest and ultimately they are responsible for the board's decisions. However many small shareholders will have lost a significant amount that they received when NR transformed from a Building Society to Bank. If I was one of these people and I thought that Government negligence was in any part to blame then I wouldn't be happy.
 
I don't know about Govt negligence - Govt policy is part of the problem, at least

Now it just keeps getting worse: From the Guardian website:

<< Treasury chief secretary, Yvette Cooper, refused to confirm reports that taxpayers faced a £100m bill for advice on the crisis from City lawyers and bankers.

However, she defended the government's need to take "serious legal advice" and accepted that large sums would be indirectly borne by the public purse through Northern Rock. >>

For feck's sake, what on earth do these petty jumped up politicians, who couldn't run a country council, know about running banks and an economy? God help us all, what a farce
 
Originally posted by Tout Seul@Feb 18 2008, 12:02 PM
Does anyone think that HMG  wanted to nationalise NR?  Get real! They are  doing this because the supposed rescue bids  were in fact demands of a massive HMG guarantee and huge profits for bidders. F@ck the shareholders there is minimal value for them anyway  and the demands come from Hedge funds who punted  and got it wrong. Screw em!

From your overseas correspondent.
Click to expand...
A fine summary from someone who has been involved in even more corporate takeovers than the sum of aftertimed selections that appear on here.

The Barclays figures released this morning make interesting and slightly encouraging reading. Sets a standard for the other banks who announce in the next few days.
 
And so it comes to pass.... these clowns had no idea whatg they were letting themselves in for when they started this farcial chain of events ...... they are getting some idea now! did no-one lookinto this business properly before nationalising it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/news/2008/02/21/nrock121.xml

One quote, from vincent Cable, about sums it up:

<< "Ministers have so far completely failed to answer how the continued existence of Granite will be anything other than an asset stripping operation, designed to protect this segment of the bank's activities while the taxpayer is left with unsecured loans and high risk mortgages.
"The shambolic performance of ministers in Parliament smacks of a Treasury that is out of control." >>

More fun here, Channels Islands tax haven anyone?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/21/nrock221.xml
<< The subsidiary was set up in the same year that Mr Brown, as shadow chancellor, pledged to close loopholes in offshore tax havens. The Guernsey connection came only 24 hours after it emerged that Ron Sandler, the man chosen by the Prime Minister to run Northern Rock, is a non-domicile who can shelter overseas income from UK tax. The Government was last week forced to water down plans last week to tighten the non-domicile rules.
Northern Rock also has a booming operation in Ireland whose Finance Ministry announced this week that it would actively promote its "attractive" tax breaks for non-domiciles in an attempt to woo those who have indicated that they might leave Britain to escape the Treasury clampdown. >>

und so weiter......
 
Originally posted by Bar the Bull@Jan 20 2008, 10:18 AM
I have just seen Headstrong's post from the 18th now.

In what way are the government's finances in disarray?

There is a long way to go, but the Northern Rock situation seems to be getting sorted.
Click to expand...
Yep, looks as if things are well and truly sorted don't they, BtB?

By the way, rumour this morning that HBOS shares were briefly suspended this morning as they had to go to the BOE for emergency funding too.

I don't want to be accused of bringing the banking sector down just passing on what I heard.
 
It wasn't just me was it? :D

Courtesy of The Telepgraph as 12.02. (online)

BoE demands probe as rumours hit UK banks
By Philip Aldrick, Banking Editor
Last Updated: 12:02pm GMT 19/03/2008

The Bank of England has demanded the Financial Services Authority investigate inaccurate rumours sweeping the market that a British lender is in crisis after being forced to issue a vehement denial that it has been called into emergency meetings.

HBOS shares lead the FTSE 100 lower
Sources said the Bank was livid with what it believes are short sellers attempting to turn a profit by spreading false stories about distressed lenders that could undermine the stability of Britain’s financial system in these fragile markets.

advertisementA Bank spokesman said: “No meeting has taken place or been scheduled with any financial institution in the UK.”

It added that it made no loans through its standing facility yesterday.

HBOS appeared to be the main target of this morning’s speculation. Its shares tumbled up to 11pc on rumours that it had applied for emergency central bank funding despite a clear denial.

An HBOS spokesman said: “There is not a shred of substance whatsoever in these unfounded and malicious rumours. This is a classic case of a lie being half way round the world before truth has its boots on. It is deeply concerning these rumours are circulating the markets.

“HBOS is one of the strongest financial institutions in the world with a balance sheet of £660bn the group has also had the largest deposit base in the UK. We are one of the most respected names in the wholesale and capital markets. HBOS is a very strong financial institution.”

The rumours have been fuelled by the dramatic actions of the US Federal Reserve’s dramatic actions over the past few days, both orchestrating the cut-price sale and rescue of Bear Stearns and cutting interest rates by three quarters of a percentage point. Britain’s central Bank also took the unusual step of quashing a number of other rumours.

A spokesman said: “It’s a fantasy that all leave for Bank staff has been cancelled over Easter. There is also talk going round that the Governor has had to cancel a trip to the Far East. There was no trip, that’s complete fantasy.”

Mervyn King, the Bank’s governor, did cancel a trip to the west Midlands scheduled for Monday and Tuesday and his deputies Sir John Gieve and Rachel Lomax have also cancelled follow-up trips due today and tomorrow.

“These trips were cancelled so that they could be in London to monitor conditions in the wake of Bear Stearns,” the spokesman said. Britain’s banks all suffered large fshare price falls in morning trading on the rumours.

The FSA last year said it would be paying close attention to all hedge fund or short-selling practices in the current extreme conditions to keep an eye out for market abuse. Well-placed insiders said the Bank has requested the FSA step up its attempts to crack down on the sources of the latest rumuors. The Bank declined to comment.
 
Originally posted by Kathy@Mar 19 2008, 12:09 PM
Well-placed insiders said the Bank has requested the FSA step up its attempts to crack down on the sources of the latest rumuors. The Bank declined to comment.
Click to expand...
It was me!!!! :laughing:
 
Fair enough. This particular rumour quickly made the national papers though. Many "ordinary" people are very jittery at the moment. I have never seen so many so called financial"experts" advising savers only to keep £35k in any one bank (I have seen 3 "experts" on the TV this morning) - which just adds to peoples fears that maybe (just maybe) another UK based bank is about to announce major liquidity problems - or possibly another Northern Rock.

No one (apart from those that rubbish everything I say and always have) can deny there is a real air of uncertainty around at the moment.
 
Back
Top