G
Gearoid
Guest
The exchanges will be calculated differently from bookmakers. Maybe 1% of total money risked per market on settlement.
Not looking good across the water
- Thread starter Flame
- Start date
From the Racing Post. The last couple of paragraphs are disturbing, because I would have thought that HRI would have been consulted and therefore would already have a fair idea how the tax on internet and phone betting was going to be applied.
Grey, sorry to be dense, but why would a 3.3% reduction in funding lead to draconian cuts in horse and hound activities? Surely, if you lose 3.3% from your income, you simply pass a 3.3% rise in costs on? As in your on-course hospitality, restaurant and franchise fees. I'm sure that Ireland's no different to the UK and hasn't given its catering or raceday staff a rise in half a decade, so that area wouldn't be impacted by the cut anyway!
Trimming the fixtures list seems daft when winter AW racing would boost incomes with picture rights alone - by all means, cut those fixtures which appear to be regularly lost to the weather or which are a course's poorest-performing days historically. One example would be every World Cup year to cut fixtures quite dramatically for the duration - nobody turns out in anything like normal numbers. You could also cut back during the Olympics in 2012 - reducing fixtures where other, very strong events clash with racing's turn-out, putting them back in place in more 'normal' years, surely?
Trimming the fixtures list seems daft when winter AW racing would boost incomes with picture rights alone - by all means, cut those fixtures which appear to be regularly lost to the weather or which are a course's poorest-performing days historically. One example would be every World Cup year to cut fixtures quite dramatically for the duration - nobody turns out in anything like normal numbers. You could also cut back during the Olympics in 2012 - reducing fixtures where other, very strong events clash with racing's turn-out, putting them back in place in more 'normal' years, surely?
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I think the crux of it is that prize money levels are back to where they were in 2004, Kriz, but there are 40 more fixtures now than then. But perhaps the main reason for reducing fixtures, not mentioned in the article, is that the number of horses in training is falling.
I have no doubt they were consulted and they know what will be done but you hardly expect them to come out and say we knew what was coming and have already made changes accordingly. Then the gov would turn around and say "sure you can take another 5% next year then"! It's a game. We knew six months ago that the changes to 2011 prizemoney would be small and it is. They essentially are pleading for mercy and saying they've made all the cuts they can etc etc. HRI is extremely focused on ensuring racing's funding is secure, but it needs legislation and the ability to physically track offshore betting. What is reported in the press and what actually happens are completely different things when it comes to HRI.
I don't think it's a game, the game is over. The funding decisions have been taken and the Budget has been announced, so there's no more need to keep playing the poor mouth until next year's budget draws near. Why couldn't Brian Kavanagh say he is aware of the government's plan, if that is the case?
Brian Kavanagh is saying what he actually thinks, that the cuts could have been worse, which he wouldn't have said before the budget. But he is also worried that the government have not yet worked out how to impose this new tax of theirs, which is not only disturbing but quite an insult to the government when you think about it.
The head of the HRI, who has presumably discussed this matter with the government and its officials in some detail, and knows the people concerned over quite a long period, is not sure he can trust them to have found a way to implement it.
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Thanks for that, Grey. Then, if there were 40 fewer fixtures in 2004 than now, but contestant numbers have fallen, then I assume the fixtures could go back to 2004 levels to accommodate the shrunken fields - and the prize money could actually stay as it is now, no? I feel it's rather unfair to grab back what was only expanded over six years to meet a burgeoning amount of competition, but now that the competition has shrivelled a bit, to try to grasp back the prize money. After all, transport/fuel and all costs related to producing a horse on the track haven't shrunken in six years! I don't know of a single trainer who's reduced his fees to help out owners with suddenly small pockets, or who's offered the inducement of BOGOF stabling!
I think the idea, Kriz, is to cut the number of fixtures and reallocate at least some of the money saved to the remaining fixtures.
By the way, I would guess nearly all trainers in Ireland have reduced their fees, most of them up to two years ago.
By the way, I would guess nearly all trainers in Ireland have reduced their fees, most of them up to two years ago.
HORSE RACING IRELAND ANNOUNCES
2011 RACING INDUSTRY BUDGET
2011 RACING INDUSTRY BUDGET
Prize Money reduced by 5%
Minimum race value to remain at €7,000
Racecourse Support Schemes to be cut by €600,000
HRI costs reduced by 6%
Integrity Costs reduced by 7%
Industry Grants reduced by 8%
Horse Racing Ireland (HRI) today announced a series of budgetary measures for 2011, in response to the challenging economic environment, the €1.6 million reduction in funding announced in the recent budget, and a drop in HRI's overall income.
The cost-saving measures include a reduction in prize money and continued restrictions on racecourse capital development projects.
The key features of HRI’s budget for 2011 are as follows:
1. Prize Money
Total prize money will reduce by 5% from a forecast €46.6m this year to €44.1m next year, with a 5% cut in base values to be applied across all race categories except for the lowest value races, which will remain at their current levels of €7,000 and €7,500. HRI’s contribution within this total sum will drop by €600k (or 2%), while the combined amount coming from owners’ entry fees and sponsorship will decline by an anticipated €1.9m (11%). A similar 5% cut in the prize money for Point-to-Points will also apply.
2. Fixtures
There will be no further reduction in fixtures for 2011 (beyond the ten meetings already lost - down from 345 to 335) and the Autumn Point-to-Point season will be retained.
3. Racecourse Capital Developments
The Racecourse Capital Development Fund and Racecourse Improvements Scheme will continue to be curtailed with no new projects to be approved in the short-term. These critical development schemes have been financed in the past through long-term borrowings. Until a secure funding mechanism is put in place, borrowings to cover necessary future work cannot be put in place. Additionally, there will be a cut of €600k in direct racecourse support schemes.
4. Cost Savings
HRI's administration costs will be cut by 6%. Grants to industry bodies, such as the Irish Equine Centre, Irish Thoroughbred Marketing, Irish Thoroughbred Breeders Association and RACE, will be reduced collectively by 8%.
5. Integrity/Racecourse Services
The Turf Club is independently targeting savings of 7% in relation to integrity costs, which are incorporated into the budget. An equivalent saving is being sought in relation to the integrity costs for Point-to-Point races. The cost of racecourse services such as patrol camera, photo finish and starting stalls will also be reduced by 8%.
HRI's Chief Executive, Brian Kavanagh, said: "While further cutbacks are extremely regrettable, they are unavoidable given the fourth cut in the space of two years to HRI's funding, which has now fallen by €15m, or 25%, since 2008. A secure, long-term funding structure is central to a return to growth within our industry. The foal population has dropped by 40% over the past two years and horses in training are currently down 15% compared to last year. The HRI Board consequently felt that it was important to retain our minimum value for prize money at its current level of €7000."
Brian Kavanagh continued: "HRI will continue to work to ensure that all types of off-shore betting, including betting exchanges, are captured within the taxation net on an equitable basis. The next step will be to secure an appropriate increase in the taxation rate to ensure that there is no future requirement for any direct exchequer subvention. The current rate of betting duty in Ireland is the lowest in the world and a modest increase will safeguard jobs in rural Ireland, ensure continued inward investment from overseas owners and enable the resumption of vital Racecourse Capital Development Programmes as soon as possible, thereby creating significant employment around the country."
I'm surprised that there is not a greater reduction in fixtures foreseen if horses in training are down by 15%. To reduce from 345 to 335 meetings is a drop of less than 3%.
Given that the drop is going to be greatest for younger horses, maidens and bumpers are about to become a lot less competitive.
Given that the drop is going to be greatest for younger horses, maidens and bumpers are about to become a lot less competitive.
davidjohnson
At the Start
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 3,434
Aren't field size and competitiveness 2 seperate things?
"The foal population has dropped by 40% over the past two years and horses in training are currently down 15% compared to last year. The HRI Board consequently felt that it was important to retain our minimum value for prize money at its current level of €7000."
How does the reduction in number of horses in training CONSEQUENTLY lead HRI to feel it important to retain the minimum prize money level. The two are not linked at all.
I think it is unfair for a maiden hurdle winner, rated 110, to have a reduction in its prizemoney from 10k to 9.5k and a horse rated 85 is still running for 7k. It's just my own personal viewpoint that you should be protecting those that are keeping 110 rated horses in training rather than 85 rated horses, the lowest of the low.
How does the reduction in number of horses in training CONSEQUENTLY lead HRI to feel it important to retain the minimum prize money level. The two are not linked at all.
I think it is unfair for a maiden hurdle winner, rated 110, to have a reduction in its prizemoney from 10k to 9.5k and a horse rated 85 is still running for 7k. It's just my own personal viewpoint that you should be protecting those that are keeping 110 rated horses in training rather than 85 rated horses, the lowest of the low.
On The Bridle
At the Start
The law of averages would imply that as numbers fall so will the number of horses of the standard normally needed to win races. If the range of races available to them remains constant they will have more opportunities to avoid competing against each other.
Add to that the renewed tendency to export the best of our young horses, and Irish maidens and bumpers are going to take less winning than before.
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Unless of course there are more horses trying in those maidens and bumpers
In the glory days you'd normally only see three or four at the business end turning in. Now you see seven or eight being lashed to get into the prizemoney. Handicapping is too costly an exercise now!!
Still holding onto your elitist viewpoint I see C
Pass the mayonnaise please, these prawns are terribly dry.......
I notice a lot of horses formerly owned by Thomas Gilligan have transferred to Willie Mullins including Dooneys Gate and bumper winner Aughaloor. I think Gilligan was a builder and owned Shakervilz.
In Compliance has also changed ownership, presumably as Sean Mulryan is now NAMA'd.
In Compliance has also changed ownership, presumably as Sean Mulryan is now NAMA'd.
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Celtic Bookmakers has gone into receivership
Tue, 4th Jan, 2011
From ireland.com
Celtic Bookmakers, the independent chain owned by broadcaster and former Fine Gael minister Ivan Yates and his wife Deirdre, has gone into receivership.
Established in Wexford in 1987, the bookmaking group employs 237 people.
A statement from the directors confirmed AIB had appointed Neil Hughes of Hughes Blake Accountants as receiver. The 47 betting shops are immediately being put up for sale as a going concern, either as individual units or as one lot.
The directors said that while there would be “inevitable significant job losses”, they would try and retain as many of the 237 jobs as possible. Mr Yates said he was "hopeful" of saving 100 jobs but there was no guarantee of that.
Revenue at Celtic Bookmakers fell by an “unsustainable” 50 per cent since mid-2007, having previously achieved an annual income of €180 million and an operating profit of €4 million, the directors said in their statement.
Since then, it has reduced its cost base from €17 million to less than €12 million, including the closure of 12 loss-making shops.
Conditions in 2010 continued to deteriorate and prevented the company from securing a suitable merger, refinancing or restructuring despite "many months" of effort.
“Today is a profoundly sad day for our employees, for our families and for ourselves,” Mr Yates said.
“I take this opportunity to express our deep appreciation to all of our wonderful staff, managers, great customers, landlords and suppliers for their support and loyalty over the past 23 years. Like many, we did not anticipate the rapid decline in the economy, but I acknowledge that the accelerated growth of the business placed the company in a difficult position given the extent of the recession.”
The directors said any employees made redundant would get their full statutory entitlement. They said they had supported the company from their personal resources and had outstanding unpaid loans to it. They had kept their salaries to an "absolute minimum" and had not drawn any remuneration for the past three years.
"There have been no rash decisions, diversifications or investments that have contributed to the current difficulties," the statement said.
Speaking on RTÉ's News at One , Mr Yates confirmed that his own house and the home of his 78-year-old mother had been used as collateral for bank loans and that the bank was "pursuing" this. It is understood he owes in the region of €6 million.
"I take full, personal responsibility for this commercial disaster," he said. He added that there was "no hiding place" for him with regard to the current circumstances.
Celtic expanded rapidly in earlier years, acquiring a number of smaller bookmakers’ stores to add to its portfolio. But more recently it had concentrated on cost reduction. It cut job numbers to 237 from 256 in the course of 2009.
The directors said at that time they were confident the company would return to profitability in future years.
In 2005, the company had a turnover of about €105 million and Mr Yates estimated the following year that it was growing at about 20 per cent per annum.
During its rapid expansion, it opened outlets in places such as Swansea, Bristol and Wales. In 2006, Celtic spent an estimated €5 million on the purchase of Dublin-based Joe Molloy Bookmakers to add a further 10 stores to the chain.
The company’s website appeared to have been taken down this morning.
Mr Yates (50) left school at the age of 16 and joined Fine Gael at 17. He spent over 20 years as TD for Wexford and served on Fine Gael front bench for more than 12 years.
He was minister for agriculture from 1994 to 1997, a period that included the BSE crisis.
Despite being tipped as a potential leader of Fine Gael, he announced in 2001 that he would retire from politics in order to concentrate on his family and business interests.
Speaking to The Irish Times in February 2001 following his decision to withdraw from political life, Mr Yates said his late father, John F. Yates, had not approved of his choice.
“I come from a Protestant background and my family would have been distrustful of politics, they would have felt it was a dubious profession. But to be truthful they feel equally dubious about bookmaking. I can't win,” he said.
Mr Yates said in his statement he would continue with his other non-bookmaking commitments as the affairs of Celtic Bookmakers are concluded. He said he would resume his broadcasting role with Newstalk radio next Monday.
Tue, 4th Jan, 2011
From ireland.com
Celtic Bookmakers, the independent chain owned by broadcaster and former Fine Gael minister Ivan Yates and his wife Deirdre, has gone into receivership.
Established in Wexford in 1987, the bookmaking group employs 237 people.
A statement from the directors confirmed AIB had appointed Neil Hughes of Hughes Blake Accountants as receiver. The 47 betting shops are immediately being put up for sale as a going concern, either as individual units or as one lot.
The directors said that while there would be “inevitable significant job losses”, they would try and retain as many of the 237 jobs as possible. Mr Yates said he was "hopeful" of saving 100 jobs but there was no guarantee of that.
Revenue at Celtic Bookmakers fell by an “unsustainable” 50 per cent since mid-2007, having previously achieved an annual income of €180 million and an operating profit of €4 million, the directors said in their statement.
Since then, it has reduced its cost base from €17 million to less than €12 million, including the closure of 12 loss-making shops.
Conditions in 2010 continued to deteriorate and prevented the company from securing a suitable merger, refinancing or restructuring despite "many months" of effort.
“Today is a profoundly sad day for our employees, for our families and for ourselves,” Mr Yates said.
“I take this opportunity to express our deep appreciation to all of our wonderful staff, managers, great customers, landlords and suppliers for their support and loyalty over the past 23 years. Like many, we did not anticipate the rapid decline in the economy, but I acknowledge that the accelerated growth of the business placed the company in a difficult position given the extent of the recession.”
The directors said any employees made redundant would get their full statutory entitlement. They said they had supported the company from their personal resources and had outstanding unpaid loans to it. They had kept their salaries to an "absolute minimum" and had not drawn any remuneration for the past three years.
"There have been no rash decisions, diversifications or investments that have contributed to the current difficulties," the statement said.
Speaking on RTÉ's News at One , Mr Yates confirmed that his own house and the home of his 78-year-old mother had been used as collateral for bank loans and that the bank was "pursuing" this. It is understood he owes in the region of €6 million.
"I take full, personal responsibility for this commercial disaster," he said. He added that there was "no hiding place" for him with regard to the current circumstances.
Celtic expanded rapidly in earlier years, acquiring a number of smaller bookmakers’ stores to add to its portfolio. But more recently it had concentrated on cost reduction. It cut job numbers to 237 from 256 in the course of 2009.
The directors said at that time they were confident the company would return to profitability in future years.
In 2005, the company had a turnover of about €105 million and Mr Yates estimated the following year that it was growing at about 20 per cent per annum.
During its rapid expansion, it opened outlets in places such as Swansea, Bristol and Wales. In 2006, Celtic spent an estimated €5 million on the purchase of Dublin-based Joe Molloy Bookmakers to add a further 10 stores to the chain.
The company’s website appeared to have been taken down this morning.
Mr Yates (50) left school at the age of 16 and joined Fine Gael at 17. He spent over 20 years as TD for Wexford and served on Fine Gael front bench for more than 12 years.
He was minister for agriculture from 1994 to 1997, a period that included the BSE crisis.
Despite being tipped as a potential leader of Fine Gael, he announced in 2001 that he would retire from politics in order to concentrate on his family and business interests.
Speaking to The Irish Times in February 2001 following his decision to withdraw from political life, Mr Yates said his late father, John F. Yates, had not approved of his choice.
“I come from a Protestant background and my family would have been distrustful of politics, they would have felt it was a dubious profession. But to be truthful they feel equally dubious about bookmaking. I can't win,” he said.
Mr Yates said in his statement he would continue with his other non-bookmaking commitments as the affairs of Celtic Bookmakers are concluded. He said he would resume his broadcasting role with Newstalk radio next Monday.
Bar the Bull
At the Start
I like Yates.
He was a good politician, seemingly doomed to failure as a bookmaker but an excellent radioshow host.
A very interesting career.
He was a good politician, seemingly doomed to failure as a bookmaker but an excellent radioshow host.
A very interesting career.
It will make a good book in time!!
G
Gearoid
Guest
Rule Number 1 of gambling - Make sure you get paid.
An important rule to keep on your side this year. The time for betting with the Terry Rogers, Hacketts and Bruces in this country are gone in my opinion. I would not be in a rush to have a bet with Betpack either.
An important rule to keep on your side this year. The time for betting with the Terry Rogers, Hacketts and Bruces in this country are gone in my opinion. I would not be in a rush to have a bet with Betpack either.