Only in the Guardian

You either take the security services view on him or you dont.

I'd rather have some evidence before making up my mind. Sometimes the security services get it completely right, sometimes they are hopelessly wrong, sometimes they are somewhere in between and occasionally they have been maliciously wrong. Let's see how his trial goes in Jordan.
 
Last edited:
I dont read it. The article is everywhere and gone viral as they say.

And it is a disgusting piece. By any civilised standards

But you are also quoting things from the Guardian on here, which suggest you DO read it, and often. If you dislike it, its views and those who comment on its website so much, wouldn't your life be better off without it?
 
Either way grey, you now full well that he has held and almost certainly does still hold views which are stomach churning to say the least.

In simple terms, what you have here is a supposedly liberal paper (which is bollocks IMO) fawning over someone who believes that citizens should be executed simply on the basis of their race/religion

If the telegraph ran a similar piece praising nick griffin then you would not hear the end of it. It would be beyond the pale vene though griffins views are far less extremist and bigoted right wing than qatadas
 
What I know is that he is a man of stomach churning views who has been held without trial for twelve years because the evidence that might have been used against him was obtained using torture. Nobody comes out of this well.
 
has been held without trial for twelve years because the evidence that might have been used against him was obtained using torture.
No, he has been held because he was waging a long legal battle against deportation.
He could have voluntarily f****d off back to Jordan in 2001 thereby saving himself all that time in Belmarsh -- and saving the British taxpayer a couple of mill.
 
Exactly. The only mistake on the british side was allowing him here in the first place.
 
Last edited:
Rubbish

This is the first and a perfect response which would have shut down dead the arrogant journo

he plight of Roma people is just so utterly, utterly depressing.
And as much as Guardian commentators try, the issue can’t be addressed with simplistic, black and white, ‘liberal’ accepted wisdom. This isn’t a matter of ‘racism’ or ‘education’. It is deeper, more complex and quite possibly hopeless.
I doubt that anyone commenting has ever worked with or even encountered Roma families up close.
My mother-in-law works with Roma children and families in an Eastern European country. Whenever my wife and I visit, I fill up my car with second-hand clothes and toys that my wife proactively collects all year. We help distribute these to Roma families and help Roma children in the classroom.
Being close to Roma people has led me to understand that the problems that Roma communities suffer aren’t because of their ‘race’. They are rooted in the prevalence of specific cultural problems, whatever their original causes, which exist within large sections of the Roma population. It’ll be some time before Europeans have the intellectual maturity, judgement and compassion to addresses or even discuss these problems. Yes “problems”.
And these problems go far beyond the default sociological factors that ‘liberal’ commentators espouse. Poverty, education. ‘Racism’.
I suspect that many here – those people who have never encountered Roma people up-close nor ever sat in their homes and shared slivovice with them will be bristling with outrage.
They’ll be gibbering “what you’re saying is racist, racist, racist!” They’ll also declare, with typical sanctimony and self-satisfaction, that the reason that staggeringly disproportionate numbers of Roma people are represented so negatively in education, economic and criminal statistics is because of ‘racism’ toward them.
“If only the bigoted majorities were as tolerant, enlightened and clever as me, then there wouldn’t be a problem,.”
Of course they’d be wrong.
For decades the Communists forced ‘integration’ on Roma people. They forced education on them. They forced them into guaranteed jobs. It failed. Indeed, the Communists invented the crime of ‘Parasitism’ specifically for those Roma who refused to work under any circumstances.
With the EU came money and Roma families found themselves moved into new and better housing. I’ve been inside of these homes, where wooden structures have been ripped out and burned and where rubbish is simply thrown into the stairwells and onto the common areas in front of the apartment buildings.
Any rational person that puts aside their ‘liberal’ prejudices will conclude that aspects of Roma culture are indeed defective. For example, many of the families that my mother-in-law works with praise their children stealing.
The problems that exist within Roma culture create problems for Roma individuals, families and communities. The tragedy is that ultimately, they create communities that are incapable of supporting themselves.
Consequently, wherever they exist, these communities cause resentment and yes, ‘racism’ from their neighbouring communities, creating a viscous circle that makes everything worse.
The way to help the Roma is not to deny these problems are caused at least in part by Roma culture. The cultural factors exist and must be confronted.
And just as other cultural and ethnic groups have managed to consign some of the harmful and problematic aspects of their cultures to history, so must the Roma people.
Even educated Roma people acknowledge these problems. I heard a Roma councillor say, “My people have to learn that they can’t live their lives as if tomorrow isn’t going to come”.
So Blunkett is indeed brave to raise this issue.
And left-wing commentators are the real cowards, who for reasons of ideological dogma, seek to prevent these issues from being acknowledged or even discussed.
It is they who are failing the Roma.

and the author, who claims that Roma are being stigmatised with generalisations and racism writes this in his article. Hes either, thick, hypocritical or autistic

One wonders how the Roma should indicate their inculcation into British values. By encouraging their teens to get hammered on a Friday and Saturday night and start brawling? Or by stigmatising the next group of immigrants who come after them? For that too is the way "life is lived in this country".

I have no strong opinion on the roma simply because (apart from Marble arch) i rarely see them round here but the author is a perfect example why this country has (thankfully) turned its back on this strand of left wing rubbish and why leaders like Blunkett are laboiurs best chance. For someone whos blind he can see a lot more clearly than the moron who wrote this piece
 
Last edited:
Get lost, what I said is not 'rubbish'. The 'classic' replies to the article you posted asked why the Guardian hadn't been to Page Hall to speak to residents. The link I put up demonstrates that they had.
 
So why didnt you state that "some"of the replies were wrong then, rather than all?

Not exactly a great response given that the very first and truly damning response, copied above, makes no such mention of "visiting Page hall"

Doesnt matter anyway. This sort of drivel with its sly bigotry could only appear in one place
 
Last edited:
Roma people in central and eastern Europe normally live in their own settlements, away from other people, rather like Jewish people used to do and for similar reasons. When Clegg says to Roma people they must conform if they want to integrate most of them are probably very puzzled.
 
Well if they prefer to "live in their own settlements away from others" then perhaps they should stay exactly where they are? What are they doing in Glasgow and Sheffield then?

And the jewish community did not "live away" from others. certainly not in london and i would suggest amsterdam, antwerp and paris too.

Perhaps Clegg should have spelt it out more clearly then? Because we know what he means and so does everyone else (except for the usual rubbish on the left who shriek "racism" at every opportunity and yet retain absolute hatred towards british working people)

This country is far more integrated and accepting of cultures than just about anywhere in europe> No city comes close to london for sheer variety but frankly if that culture is petty crime and little else, we could do without it
 
Last edited:
perhaps they should stay exactly where they are? What are they doing in Glasgow and Sheffield then?

Moving on, probably, from the last place that got rid of them.


And the jewish community did not "live away" from others. certainly not in london and i would suggest amsterdam, antwerp and paris too.

Come on, I'm sure you've heard of ghettoes.

In most places Roma people live apart from others for the same reasons Jewish people did, ie self protection and togetherness and because others want to keep them at a distance.
 
Oh really? Given that they have come from other eu states, tell me which of these has the power to expel its own citizens?

Jewish ghettos ? We are talking uk here and hendon , Stamford hill and St. John's wood are no more "ghettos" than new Malden is a Korean "ghetto" or stockwell a Portuguese one

The real point is that those who are a little closer to the ground and refer to difficulties are immediately branded "racists" by arrogant less than bright journos with a clear agenda of their own. Nothing at all could better play into the hands of the bnp and UKip

Especially given his own racist comments about the british
 
Last edited:
tell me which of these has the power to expel its own citizens?

Some member states, Slovakia included, start by refusing to recognise them as citizens. Add to that a series of other repressive measures in the hopes that the Roma people will do what they have always done, and move on.

Jewish ghettos ? We are talking uk here and hendon , Stamford hill and St. John's wood are no more "ghettos" than new Malden is a Korean "ghetto" or stockwell a Portuguese one

So what? Nobody said there were Jewish ghettoes in the UK*. But in Slovakia some people are trying to build ghettoes for Roma - real ones, not just metaphorical ones:

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/slovakia-roma.q94




*But there are parts of the UK that used to come close to being ghettoes, mind you.
 
Refusing to recognise them as citizens, which is clear wrong, is not expelling them. It's is not forcing them to come to the uk

If Slovakia is really setting up apartheid then what the eu doing about it?
 
Refusing to recognise them as citizens, which is clear wrong, is not expelling them. It's is not forcing them to come to the uk

What is your point?

If Slovakia is really setting up apartheid then what the eu doing about it?

Following criticism from the European Commission the mayor of Kosice has said the wall will be demolished.
 
There are plenty of ways to 'encourage' people to move on without formally expelling them. Why are you questioning that?
 
I am not really up to date on Roma in the UK but it is a huge problem here in Paris. And is being dealt with quite harshly (I mean that in a positive way).

I have seen several incidents myself just walking around Paris - one which was quite brutal where a man was running after 6/7 Roma girls, late teens maybe, no clue which one had robbed him and he started punching them clean out. It was hard to know what to make of it.

Clive, play the ball and not the man - you should criticise the writer, not the paper.
 
Fair point but only that paper would publish such drivel with a the element of bigotry. Then again there should be room for all sorts of opinions but its a clear sneer at anyone who experiences Roma neighbours and the British in general

An arrsehole and a bigot

The author has anothe rproblem. The page hall area is vastly south Asian/British. Presumably they get hammered and brawl on Saturday nights too? Perhaps he should be accusing them of racism given that they are raising the issues strongly?
 
Last edited:
They did but it was never ever an area dominated by one race. the east end was always a huge mix rather than a ghetto. Surely you know that?

As it happens i stopped at one of the 24 hour bagel shops in brick lane on sat for a huge salt beef bagel for about £3.50. Big queue and absolutely fabulous melting beef. If in london, go there.
 
Back
Top