P.I.G.S.

No, I'm afraid I don't see the benefit of a single currency.
When the currency in Greece is backed by Greek production, why should it have parity with the German-backed currency?

It's unreasonable.
 
Euro doomed from start, says Jacques Delors

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8932647/Euro-doomed-from-start-says-Jacques-Delors.html

The euro project was flawed from the start and the current generation of European leaders has failed to address its fundamental problems, Jacques Delors, the architect of the single currency, declares today.

Jacques Delors, the former president of the European Commission, claims that errors made when the euro was created had effectively doomed the single currency to the current debt crisis. He also accuses today’s leaders of doing “too little, too late,” to support the single currency.

...........

Mr Delors claims that the current crisis stems from “a fault in execution” by the political leaders who oversaw the euro in its early days. Leaders chose to turn a blind eye to the fundamental weaknesses and imbalances of member states’ economies, he says.

“The finance ministers did not want to see anything disagreeable which they would be forced to deal with,” he says.

......................

Way to go, Merkel, Sarky & the other dozy tossers who think they've got a handle on all this shit.
Time to remember you're just politicians with not an original thought or inkling of what the f. is going to happen ...
 
But does Delors say why he promoted a system that would be vulnerable to the weaknesses he's described, and what he had in place to counterbalance them? I bet not. Everyone has perfect hindsight. Also, regardless of what one thinks of politicians, they are all supported by ranks of advisors who have earned degrees in Economics, PolSci and you-name-it, many of whom have held down real jobs in the 'real' world outside of the narrow confines of the political scene.

Delors didn't just wake up one night from an illuminating dream of a single currency and shove it through single-handedly. There'd have been hundreds of hours of consulations with, uh, expert minds. He cannot pretend that the system he promoted as his own is now ruined by others, when he - and his advisors - failed to have the foresight to plan for the worst case scenarios.

Was there much opposition to the Euro, apart from Britain's opt-out? If there was, it must've been overruled by Delors insisting that they were dinosaurs to continue with their own currencies, and that his system would be superior.
 
Delors' arrogance, tunnel vision and selective-memory-syndrome are typical of almost all political leaders of significance; whether they be elected representatives or bureaucrats.

The public gets what the public wants.
 
Those 'experts' no doubt had agendas (personal) of their own.
Not unusual, that; not many altruists about these days.

One supposes these same people are still around, probably in positions of greater influence today - not doing that well then, are they, fixing the current mess?

:)
 
Hey, Grassy - I wanted Labour in like I wanted a full frontal lobotomy, matey, so please don't say that! And as for repeat doses... the problem with Jeremy Clarkson is that he got the wrong target with his 'execution' remarks. Howzabout we change that to bankers and politicos and see how much the public objects to that? Not a lot, and yes, those who've lost their homes, their jobs, and possibly had their marriages wrecked during the stress, would be more than willing to not just pull the trigger, but buy the bullets, too.

SS, I've yet to hear of any Eurocrat being fired for incompetency, loading the expenses invoice or having rather too many fingers in a variety of executive boards, so I imagine that as long as you want to keep your office, you can and you do, then draw a massive pension and a variety of perks like medical care, not to mention launching your skills upon the consultancy world and after-dinner speaking for thousands a pop. Nice work if you can get it, but I think you have to know someone already in the star chamber if you want to try for a position - other than probably having one made for you, like Chief Executive, Admin & Secretariat Logistics (which in reality means ordering up packets of paperclips and rubber bands @ £95 each from a dear friend in the stationery business).
 
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Jacques Delors was the last decent president of the European Commission, one who had a vision of what Europe should be and was capable of bringing people with him. Since then we have had a succession of weaklings.

By the way, I got my post in the European Commission by passing a public competition, Kriz. So did all my colleagues. Recruitment procedures are no different to national administrations.
 
A public competition - what, do you mean something like The Cube or Family Fortunes? Did you win prizes as well as jobs? I could have a go - after all, I do know how to spell syzygy, that the capital of Mongolia is Ulan Bator, and tilapia is an African river fish. Gissa job, mister!
 
Oh lord

Must admit that isnt going to go down well...

Although i did at first wonder if Grey had got the job by sending in tokens from a cereal packet
 
krizon said:
A public competition - what, do you mean something like The Cube or Family Fortunes? Did you win prizes as well as jobs? I could have a go - after all, I do know how to spell syzygy, that the capital of Mongolia is Ulan Bator, and tilapia is an African river fish. Gissa job, mister!
Click to expand...

With your writing abilities you would have walked in.
 
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:lol: Too kind, too kind! Sadly, my last high school reporting suggesting 'he' gets a job would've tapped the rest of the application on the head!
 
Have you heard that the Eurozone is going to be under more pressure because they are loaning even more money from the ECB instead of the marketzone - that's 2% they are being charged on their borrowings compared to the 0.7% from the market.

It's insane, I know the ECB are there to fund goverments with policies on improving the economy but there is no way they should be funding the P.I.G.S at 2% on top of what they already owe, especially our banks and were going to pay for it.
 
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Its equal parts surreal and hilarious to watch Sky News discussing what the ratings agencies are doing with hushed tones and bated breath and turn over to Inside Job on BBC2, where the complete failure and corruption of these same ratings agencies is being laid bare.
 
I was transfixed by this documentary! The only full and factual expose of the interlinked corruption between the investment banks, the university professors of Economics, the ratings agencies, and the governments of successive and current presidents. Wonderful, if horrifying, stuff.

These guys don't just award themselves millions in thank-yous, they regularly lard their accounts with billions and lie about who gave them what for why. What was truly shocking to me was that when the ratings agencies' chairs were called up before some of the inquiry panels, all they offered by way of an excuse for their appallingly inaccurate and misleading analyses was that these were just 'opinions', nothing more than that. And yet over and over again they supported banks which were clearly defrauding millions of people with already failing loans and investments.

The next big shock was to find out how many professors from the most prestigious unis, Harvard included, were paid tens of thousands of dollars to write glowing analyses and testimonials for the same crap that went belly-up. They seem to be no more than paid hacks for whoever wants them to support a product launch or deflect public criticism of a failing one. One of them really got arsey about the questioning and closed down the interview quite rudely, while other ex-CEOs/etc. often - like Miskin - babbled incoherently when faced with bald, direct questions which did not permit other than a straight yes or no answer. Talk about rabbits in headlights!

And then the Big Disappointment - Obama's strident calls for a full reform of the US banking, investment, and ratings systems, followed by virtually nothing being done at all to change a jot, and the stunningly bare-faced appointment to various Treasury positions of a whole sweep of the bastards who brought banks down, caused millions to lose their homes (SIX MILLION REPOS in 2009 alone), millions more in the US and worldwide to lose their jobs, and brought about the wreckage of thousands of businesses big and small.

Matt Damon's quiet, factual narrative added to the gravitas of the production, and given that only a bare handful of those connected to the frauds, wrongful selling, the reckless absorption of credit defaults, etc., agreed to be interviewed on camera (they couldn't help being filmed during the inquiries and tribunals), it appears that a lot of people still have a great deal to not be proud of.
 
Oh, don't, Kauto, don't! Leave some of us with a couple of percent not filled up with grinding, depressing cynicism! In the end, you feel that conspiracy novels are really quite tame compared to the realities of the banking/industrial/political web of self-serving deceit and corruption. Why, you'll be telling us next that the CIA is taking backhanders to knock off whistle-blowers with Ricin, and blaming it on the Russkies! Or that 9/11 really was designed at home to enable the US and allies to insert themselves into... no, no! Say it isn't so!
 
Its a fine film. I saw it in the cinema when it came out...

But i think conspiracies about 9/11 or whatever were killed off by wikileaks. much to the disappointment iof the far left/right (much the same of course), nothing came out which could be pinned on any jewish/bankers/anglos cabal at all.

Not only that the cretins who poisoned the web with this stuff (on this forum too) have produced zero, even given the passing of time and inevitable loosening of tongues

Of course this rubbish was just driven by bigots anyway, be they the guardian idiots or the BNP, but it was overdue to see a line drawn under it once and for all
 
But i think conspiracies about 9/11 or whatever were killed off by wikileaks
Click to expand...

Yes, but is Goldman Sachs the new version of the Masons? Several of Obama's secretaries of state, several European Commissioners, the new Italian and Greek Prime Minister, the head of the ECB have all worked there.
 
Grey - yes, a remarkable alma mater! Last night CNN were showing that Obama's latest appointee to be was overturned. It might be that some of his senators are getting more than fed up with the relentless appointment of these guys to top positions in State. I suppose the heffalump in the room is the, uh, Jewishness of the ex-banking fraternity, versus the markedly WASP Senate, which perhaps have a few among them who've had their own investment portfolios shrunk over the past few years, or who are being petitioned daily by anguished communities which they represent re home/job/pensions losses, not to mention the occasional suicide of the despairing? Who knows, but it may be that the jig is up, but rather too late for key Treasury positions. Oh, the irony, the irony... worthy of a Python sketch, but sadly true, not fiction.
 
Its not remarkable at all. Goldman Sachs is a pretty horrible bank (its role in the greek debt crisis was a disgrace) bu its habitually attracted the top people. The idea that they carry some sort of torch for their former employer is just conjecture. After all they left GS didnt they? they might hate the place or be at best indifferent for all we know
 
Oh come on, Clivex, disingenuity is not your strongest suit! What are you, an apologist for the bank? A bank cannot be horrible - it's inanimate, for God's sake. An atmosphere, a trading ethos, policies, treatment of employees, working conditions, etc., etc. can be horrible - and they're all made by people, particularly driven from the top down. Ergo, it stands to reason that if GS was 'horrible' it was horrible because of the 'top people' who ran it and are now in cosy positions of economic power in the current US government.
 
Banks do vary... a lot

As with corporations, there is often variations in culture and standards. RBS was nothing like HSBC 4 years ago and any number of banks didnt behave in same way as Lehmans

GS have stood out as being particularly unethical. Surprise in some ways given their previous reputation but then maybe not

https://cpcmcredit.wordpress.com/
 
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Enda really needs to get himself a saddle. That way his back won't hurt so much after getting ridden by one European leader after another.
 
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