Pathetic and Petty Betfair !!

D

Desperate Dan

Senior Jockey
Joined
May 2, 2003
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Yesterday I had the rare satisfaction of having 20 quid on the Stewards Cup winner. My bet was on the Betfair Sportsbook platform and as it was an ITV televised race I fully expected to receive the usual £20 Sports Bonus as it`s SP was over 3/1. As it was never credited I queried it with them and was told as from a week ago I was excluded. Nothing sent to me notifying me of this and, as far as I could see, nothing on the website mentioning changes.

What an appalling example of "customer service." I`m a low stakes punter who mainly bets on Saturdays and have been a Betfair customer for many years and have certainly not made much, if any, profits. Legally, they may be entitled to do this but ethically it`s appalling. They offer these incentives and then withdraw them at a whim and without notification. What a petty and pathetic outfit!!
 
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I bet fairly regularly with Betfair and have never even heard of this bonus. I notice they withdrew the free follow-up bet if backed a winner at 3/1+ some time back but don't know exactly when.

I mentioned a similar issue I had with Betvictor some time back. They didn't give me the best odds and it turned out they had withdrawn the concession from me over a year before (which shows how infrequently I bet with them) and had informed be by email at the time. I had just forgotten. I zeroed my account and haven't bet with them since.

Today I was in touch with William Hill because they didn't settle a winning bet yesterday at best odds. They said it was because I placed the bet on Friday evening and their BOG doesn't apply until the day of the race, a situation that has been in place since May. I make 95% of my bets via oddschecker and when I checked tomorrows betting, the BOG is ticked above the Hills logo. When I pointed this out to the operative he said it's Oddschecker's issue. I lost out twice in the race as not only did I miss out on the better price but I was also hit with a R4 due to a non-runner which came out much earlier in the day.

I've asked for one of the managers to call me back but I won't hold my breath. If they stand their ground I'll probably just zero that account and look elsewhere. I'm more than halfway to quitting altogether anyway so it's no big deal.

I'm not back, by the way. I'm just offering Dan, who is one of the proper gents on this forum, some moral support.
 
It always amuses me slightly when I hear punters complaining about being stung by bookmakers and threatening to close their accounts in retaliation. The thing is, betting isn't quite the traditional consumer market where you can protest a company by withdrawing your custom. If you want to protest (and hurt) a bookmaker, you have to keep betting with them. Now in fairness Dan has stated that he has "not made much, if any profit". Fair play to him, he's admitted it, but I've seen plenty of people in cyberspace threatening to close accounts whilst claiming to be profitable. Never too sure about the consistency of the two positions myself

I remember being done by Ladbrokes a decade or so ago and not betting with them for about a year, deciding to save up my next good bet and reserve it for them. As it transpires they gave me 20/1 about Reverence for the Nunthorpe with heavy rain forecast. It duly rained, the ground at York went heavy, Reverence won by 2L's and was returned something like 4/1. Yes, I'm sure Ladbrokes share price took a hammering that day because of me, and last time I checked they were still a successful FTSE what ever company, but I guess it's all about settling your own grievance, but bookmaking is an almost uniquely difficult industry to do it in due to the nature of the transaction and relationship between company and customer. The only way you can punish them is to beat them, unless you're a losing punter of course
 
I`m not going to close my account but I`ll do the bulk of my betting elsewhere. Of course, if I see better value in their odds then I`ll use them. My gripe, though, is the way they`ve gone about removing the bonus. Reeks of poor management.
 
First off I have to say it is every punters responsibility to be aware of a bookmakers terms and conditions -I haven't had a bet with William Hill since 2002 and I know they no longer pay double result.If I was you Dan I would have another word with customer services -I find it hard to believe they would exclude you without notice -ask them for a copy of the email.
There is another possibility -recently I was put on a 2% commission deal with betfair -the downside was no more guaranteed prices or special offers -have you signed up for something like that recently.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I bet fairly regularly with Betfair and have never even heard of this bonus. I notice they withdrew the free follow-up bet if backed a winner at 3/1+ some time back but don't know exactly when.

I mentioned a similar issue I had with Betvictor some time back. They didn't give me the best odds and it turned out they had withdrawn the concession from me over a year before (which shows how infrequently I bet with them) and had informed be by email at the time. I had just forgotten. I zeroed my account and haven't bet with them since.

Today I was in touch with William Hill because they didn't settle a winning bet yesterday at best odds. They said it was because I placed the bet on Friday evening and their BOG doesn't apply until the day of the race, a situation that has been in place since May. I make 95% of my bets via oddschecker and when I checked tomorrows betting, the BOG is ticked above the Hills logo. When I pointed this out to the operative he said it's Oddschecker's issue. I lost out twice in the race as not only did I miss out on the better price but I was also hit with a R4 due to a non-runner which came out much earlier in the day.

I've asked for one of the managers to call me back but I won't hold my breath. If they stand their ground I'll probably just zero that account and look elsewhere. I'm more than halfway to quitting altogether anyway so it's no big deal.

I'm not back, by the way. I'm just offering Dan, who is one of the proper gents on this forum, some moral support.
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Would it be fair to say you are a serial complainer Dessie.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I bet fairly regularly with Betfair and have never even heard of this bonus. I notice they withdrew the free follow-up bet if backed a winner at 3/1+ some time back but don't know exactly when.

I mentioned a similar issue I had with Betvictor some time back. They didn't give me the best odds and it turned out they had withdrawn the concession from me over a year before (which shows how infrequently I bet with them) and had informed be by email at the time. I had just forgotten. I zeroed my account and haven't bet with them since.

Today I was in touch with William Hill because they didn't settle a winning bet yesterday at best odds. They said it was because I placed the bet on Friday evening and their BOG doesn't apply until the day of the race, a situation that has been in place since May. I make 95% of my bets via oddschecker and when I checked tomorrows betting, the BOG is ticked above the Hills logo. When I pointed this out to the operative he said it's Oddschecker's issue. I lost out twice in the race as not only did I miss out on the better price but I was also hit with a R4 due to a non-runner which came out much earlier in the day.

I've asked for one of the managers to call me back but I won't hold my breath. If they stand their ground I'll probably just zero that account and look elsewhere. I'm more than halfway to quitting altogether anyway so it's no big deal.

I'm not back, by the way. I'm just offering Dan, who is one of the proper gents on this forum, some moral support.
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If they ring you back, and try the 'not our problem' stance, mention to them that the ASA doesn't share that view, and recent large fines handed out for misleading advertising backs that up. The ASA and UKGC make it VERY clear that license holders are entirely responsible for their affiliates advertising, and Sky Betting and Gaming (who own oddschecker) being one of the largest affiliates in the world, are fully aware of the rules.
 
Appreciated, dvds2000. My issue is with Hills. Will that change things?

We discussed not long ago a dispute I had with Bet365 over their extra places and my being denied a minor place return because I had backed the horse via oddschecker. There, it was clearly showing 5 places as well as on the oddschecker betslip but they claimed I had to bet directly via their own site and check the box 'claiming' the extra place concession in order to get it.

I took you advice at the time and wrote to the chap you suggested. His advice was that if I have a long-standing positive and profitable relationship with B365 perhaps I should take this hit, learn from it and not rock any boats. I took the advice but I reckon the number of bets I have with them has halved since then as I now actively look to other bookies offering the same odds.
 
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LUKE said:
First off I have to say it is every punters responsibility to be aware of a bookmakers terms and conditions -I haven't had a bet with William Hill since 2002 and I know they no longer pay double result.If I was you Dan I would have another word with customer services -I find it hard to believe they would exclude you without notice -ask them for a copy of the email.
There is another possibility -recently I was put on a 2% commission deal with betfair -the downside was no more guaranteed prices or special offers -have you signed up for something like that recently.
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Thanks for your advice, Luke. I had a similar problem with Paddy Power a few years ago and pursued it along the lines you suggest but without a satisfactory outcome. It seemed they weren`t interested in any sense of fairness or customer service. In this case, particularly in view of the amount involved, I feel life is too short to battle with such outfits.
Incidentally, I do admire DO for having the tenacity to pursue his complaints.
 
DD-when Paddy Power started in 1988 they were a reaction to what was perceived as the unfairness and at times sharp practice of the big English multiples operating in Ireland at the time.For years Powers were the ultimate in customer relations-unfortunately as they grew to a mega company they decided to squeeze more and more out of the business.My father does a 50 cent Lucky 15 with them everyday and constantly gets underpaid.
I avoid them but there is a generation of young people in Ireland who view them as the only option for having a bet.
 
Even if you are using oddschecker, best not to bet directly through them. I always assumed that this alerted your bookmaker that you are somewhat sharp/price sensitive, just the sort of account they want to close.

Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
 
Amen to this, Warbler.

Warbler said:
It always amuses me slightly when I hear punters complaining about being stung by bookmakers and threatening to close their accounts in retaliation. The thing is, betting isn't quite the traditional consumer market where you can protest a company by withdrawing your custom. If you want to protest (and hurt) a bookmaker, you have to keep betting with them. Now in fairness Dan has stated that he has "not made much, if any profit". Fair play to him, he's admitted it, but I've seen plenty of people in cyberspace threatening to close accounts whilst claiming to be profitable. Never too sure about the consistency of the two positions myself

I remember being done by Ladbrokes a decade or so ago and not betting with them for about a year, deciding to save up my next good bet and reserve it for them. As it transpires they gave me 20/1 about Reverence for the Nunthorpe with heavy rain forecast. It duly rained, the ground at York went heavy, Reverence won by 2L's and was returned something like 4/1. Yes, I'm sure Ladbrokes share price took a hammering that day because of me, and last time I checked they were still a successful FTSE what ever company, but I guess it's all about settling your own grievance, but bookmaking is an almost uniquely difficult industry to do it in due to the nature of the transaction and relationship between company and customer. The only way you can punish them is to beat them, unless you're a losing punter of course
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What Dan alludes to is not just a horse racing issue either.

I had £50 on number 28 or 29 many years ago (can't quite remember which of the two it was), (maybe ten years ago now), with Hills online, (on premium roulette at 36/1).

However, the next time I logged in the maximum stake you could place on an individual number was £15, not £50!

Another coincidence?

Ps, my finances and cash flow were a lot better in those years. :)

I could near enough guarantee I'd land a nice pay out every several months; those days are gone now.
 
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LUKE said:
DD-when Paddy Power started in 1988 they were a reaction to what was perceived as the unfairness and at times sharp practice of the big English multiples operating in Ireland at the time.For years Powers were the ultimate in customer relations-unfortunately as they grew to a mega company they decided to squeeze more and more out of the business.My father does a 50 cent Lucky 15 with them everyday and constantly gets underpaid.
I avoid them but there is a generation of young people in Ireland who view them as the only option for having a bet.
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Happened to be in a Powers shop today to watch Galway. In the 2.45 race the winner, Mr. Smith, had got in as a reserve, however he at no point before the race was listed in the betting on any Paddy Power screen or betting odds terminal. They had a list of odds for all other horses, except him.

Never seen anything like it before in all my years gambling - it was noticed by a few punters in the shop (I hadn't had a bet myself) who queried it with staff who said they could do nothing. So out of interest I decided to ring the retail helpdesk this evening about what happened - to be told that they'd had hundreds of calls about it but decided that they weren't voiding bets on the race.

So essentially they've offered a market in all their shops in Ireland on which not a single shop punter could have backed the winner.
 
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JJ. said:
Happened to be in a Powers shop today to watch Galway. In the 2.45 race the winner, Mr. Right, had got in as a reserve, however he at no point before the race was listed in the betting on any Paddy Power screen or betting odds terminal. They had a list of odds for all other horses, except him.

Never seen anything like it before in all my years gambling - it was noticed by a few punters in the shop (I hadn't had a bet myself) who queried it with staff who said they could do nothing. So out of interest I decided to ring the retail helpdesk this evening about what happened - to be told that they'd had hundreds of calls about it but decided that they weren't voiding bets on the race.

So essentially they've offered a market in all their shops in Ireland on which not a single shop punter could have backed the winner.
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Couldnt have backed the winner or taken a price on the winner? Sorry for being devil's advocate.
 
Take your point, and I suppose if someone had written the name of the horse on a docket they may have been paid at SP.

But given he was a reserve, and given he didn't appear listed on their screens in the betting at any stage it seems unlikely people would have done so. Even post race they couldn't enter the result of the race for 20 minutes on their screens - they just had the 2nd, 3rd and 4th listed.
 
JJ. said:
Take your point, and I suppose if someone had written the name of the horse on a docket they may have been paid at SP.

But given he was a reserve, and given he didn't appear listed on their screens in the betting at any stage it seems unlikely people would have done so. Even post race they couldn't enter the result of the race for 20 minutes on their screens - they just had the 2nd, 3rd and 4th listed.
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Shameful stuff -years ago they would have taken it on the chin but not these days.
 
LUKE said:
Shameful stuff -years ago they would have taken it on the chin but not these days.
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Bottom line is the horse was a declared reserve, so should have been priced up. As he wasn't, he should have been ignored for settling purposes - i.e. anyone who backed the second should have been paid as a winner. For them not to do this is actually disgraceful in my view.
 
Just a minor detail.it was Mr Smith that won and thankfully I happened to be looking at the telly and saw it was running and got 10s.

But I think that is a disgrace by PP. I stopped betting with them years ago.
 
Unfortunately there have been many instances of shoddy behaviour by bookmakers detailed on here over the years, very rarely have complaints produced an amended payout. My own experience has led me to assume that any bonuses or special offers may be withdrawn even though they are on the bet receipt and therefore I treat them as discretionary.
I have learned to live with this though I still find it galling that when using apps I get messages telling me I-have earned bonuses or that because I haven’t used a site for sometime I can have a free bet of £x to welcome me back. Even these I consider ‘discretionary’.
I keep records of the majority of my bets and there is no apparent differentiation between losing accounts or winning accounts having an impact on the bookies behaviour. It must be based on betting patterns or on info gained from the apps as to my overall activity on line.

I have had an an account with one smaller firm, not on Oddschcker, for over 20 years. Whilst they have some special offers they rarely match the best terms offered by the bigger firms but I can talk with the people running the books and know I will be paid on the terms offered.
Perhaps relationships are more important than an extra place or 2..
 
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