EC1
On a break
you don't think that was one of the better Forets?
i'm surprised at that..especially as it was 6 back to the 3rd and of the last 20 years winners..apart from Goldi ...weren't exactly worldbeaters
Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2011
- Thread starter Gamla Stan
- Start date
you don't think that was one of the better Forets?
i'm surprised at that..especially as it was 6 back to the 3rd and of the last 20 years winners..apart from Goldi ...weren't exactly worldbeaters
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
When was there a vintage edition of the Foret? It's only been a Group 1 a few years.
No
it was a bad edition
Worthaad needs softer and not fit after an injury
Goldi regressing race after race, and possibly thinking in the BC,
Dream Ahead is a very good horse but track and ground were not ideal for him
3rd in the post, Sufrider run to a mark of 107
At the moment ,Goldi run to a 120, thats much lower than 2 years ago in the summer, here she proved she was top class
the time of the race slow
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Foret has been a Group 1 for years?????
EC1
On a break
time of race slow?
78.10 is fastest its been run in..due to the horses involved in the finish..knock 6 lengths of it and you get a time that would normally be run for it with class of horse usually fighting it out
do you really think Goldi is only a 120 horse now...not long ago many here were suggesting a mid 130's horse??
EC1
On a break
Foret has always been a G1 if wiki is right..only changes have been to other conditions..not grade level
S
SlimChance
Guest
The race has never been upgraded.
S
SlimChance
Guest
Does anyone know of a website that gives the history of the pattern? Google has uncovered nothing.
Goldikova was a 133 if not better 2 years ago
this year has run 121 first time out and since then 125,123, 120 and on sunday to 121.
I think she has nothing to do with a horse like Excelebration in the BCM
about the time of the race, it is slow for 7f at longchamp on gf ground.
Most of the editions were slower for an easy reason
the race used to be run in other date and the ground use to be much softer in most the edition,
1.18 on gf at longchamp for a gr1 for older horses is a slow time
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wikipedia
EC1
On a break
yes its slowish ..IF its fast ground..thats my point..it isn't fast ground so its a decent time for horses of that level on Good ground
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
Prix de la Foret
History
The race was established in 1858, and it was originally held at Chantilly. It was named after the Forêt de Chantilly, a 6,000 hectare forest which is situated alongside the racecourse. The event was initially run over 2,100 metres, and it was contested by colts and fillies aged two or three. It took place in late October.
The Prix de la Forêt was cancelled in 1870 because of the Franco-Prussian War. There were two changes to the race in 1878 – its distance was cut to 1,600 metres, and it was opened to all horses, excluding geldings, aged two or older. It was cancelled again in 1906, and it was transferred to its present home, Longchamp, in 1907.
The event was abandoned throughout World War I, with no running from 1914 to 1918. Its current distance, 1,400 metres, was introduced in 1923. It was cancelled only once during World War II, in 1939. It was temporarily switched to Auteuil in 1940, and to Le Tremblay in 1943 and 1944.
The conditions of the Prix de la Forêt have been modified twice since the mid 1990s. Firstly, in 1995, it was closed to two-year-olds, and secondly, in 2001, it was opened to geldings. It was moved to the Saturday of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe weekend, in 2005 and to the day of the "Arc" itself, the first Sunday in October, in 2010.
( wilkipedia )
History
The race was established in 1858, and it was originally held at Chantilly. It was named after the Forêt de Chantilly, a 6,000 hectare forest which is situated alongside the racecourse. The event was initially run over 2,100 metres, and it was contested by colts and fillies aged two or three. It took place in late October.
The Prix de la Forêt was cancelled in 1870 because of the Franco-Prussian War. There were two changes to the race in 1878 – its distance was cut to 1,600 metres, and it was opened to all horses, excluding geldings, aged two or older. It was cancelled again in 1906, and it was transferred to its present home, Longchamp, in 1907.
The event was abandoned throughout World War I, with no running from 1914 to 1918. Its current distance, 1,400 metres, was introduced in 1923. It was cancelled only once during World War II, in 1939. It was temporarily switched to Auteuil in 1940, and to Le Tremblay in 1943 and 1944.
The conditions of the Prix de la Forêt have been modified twice since the mid 1990s. Firstly, in 1995, it was closed to two-year-olds, and secondly, in 2001, it was opened to geldings. It was moved to the Saturday of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe weekend, in 2005 and to the day of the "Arc" itself, the first Sunday in October, in 2010.
( wilkipedia )
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Yeah, I got the Foret mixed up with the Maurice de Gheest.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Sorry to keep banging on about it, and maybe the QEII was a bad example - turns out 3yo's only get 4lb in the Breeders Cup Turf as well. Same distance, only a month later.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
On The Bridle
At the Start
They are related and may I ask how many of the four ran in the following Arc and did any win. Lessons learned - never back an older horse in the Arc or just never bet in the Arc (unless you are IS or CH etc).
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Hurricane Run, Montjeu, Hellisio and now Workforce all been 130+ winners of the Arc as 3yo's, have run in the race the following year and basically not landed a blow.
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We could go for tit for tat all day (can you explain this http://www.racingpost.com/horses/re...lts_top_tabs=re_&results_bottom_tabs=ANALYSIS) and go nowhere, can't you see Bar's stats prove the point?
I haven't read all the thread but I wouldn't have thought the first three above could be considered reliable all the time? Workforce could, but he seems to have had a very stop start year. Is it not a case that half the field were three year olds and thus there is every chance that an improver is in there. The expectation on the older horses is extremely high compared to the 3 year olds.
Hurricane was not a 130 horse for me and neither was Workforce.
The later a horse with injuries.
about
Helissio, he was a top class 4yo, he didnt have his ground in the Arc and was given a pathetic preparation by his stupid owner, but was a great horse.
Montjeu was injured in autumm, but also was a good older horse .
Some other older horses like Deep Impact or Pride could have won the Arc,
the former with the tactics and the later with a bad ride.
Many older horse has been runner up like Youmizain, Nakayama Festa, Westerner, Pilsudsky, El condor Pasa , Freedom Cry or Mubtaker , some of them close to winning and proving the wfa is spot on.
It's only out of whack if you want a championship race. If you want to hand the 3yos an advantage it is perfectly fine.
The WFA scale in fact does receive revision from time to time and I’m not against keeping it for those races in which we may want to give the three-year-olds an advantage. But for races where we want to see an actual champion let us have a race that gives us just that.
Since 1990, 17 three-year-olds have now won the Arc.
An additional benefit of having an actual championship race, in which entire horses, mares, geldings, colts and fillies, regardless of age, all carry the same weight, is that it would encourage horses to stay in training past their three-year-old seasons.
Keep the Arc as it is by all means, but let's not kid ourselves it always throws up the best horse. Why not create a new race perhaps as part of the Ascot pantomime where the best horse actually wins.
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