Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2013

Orfevre must have a massive chance but 6s would only tempt me in August

Camelot I can't have. Won't have a proper Arc prep

Dawn Approach is far more likely to be in the Champion Stakes

Gentildonna 14s is fair

The master trainer does not run Arc horses in the Poulains so I can't understand why Intello is shorter than Ocovango.

Sky Hunter is interesting at 33s for Fabre also. Could be anything and is longer than SNA and Encke which is wrong.
 
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Guess work at this stage but I wouldn't want to be laying any bigger than 50/1 Chopin.
 
One of the bookie reps on here tell me the price of Dawn Approach to win, English Derby, Irish Derby and Arc please. I've had visions of this happening. I hope in 20 years I'll sound as shrewd as our learned friend Gus Kennedy. :)
 
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One of the bookie reps on here tell me the price of Dawn Approach to win, English Derby, Irish Derby and Arc please. I've had visions of this happening. I hope in 20 years I'll sound as shrewd as our learned friend Gus Kennedy. :)

If he wins the Epson Derby they will go to 10f surely.
 
ère(P/ 474) QATAR PRIX DE L'ARC DE TRIOMPHE , le 06.10.2013, LONGCHAMP
GROUPE I , PLAT, 2.400 mètres, corde à DROITE. (2.742.720,1.097.280, 548.640, 274.080, 137.280) Après Engagements: 106 Engagés. - Course Premium -

La prime aux Propriétaires ne s'applique pas dans cette épreuve et les primes aux Eleveurs sont fixées comme suit: 87.996 (1er), 35.204 (2ème), 17.602 (3ème), 8.793 (4ème), 4.404 (5ème). Pour chevaux entiers et juments de 3 ans et au-dessus. Poids:3ans, 56k.; 4 ans et au-dessus, 59k.1/2. Versement à la poule des propriétaires: 6.000 à l'engagement le 15 mai ou 100.000 à l'engagement le 3octobre. Forfait initial: mardi 1er octobre à 10 H.30. Le nombre de partants sera réduit en éliminant les chevaux auxquels le service des Handicapeurs de FRANCE GALOP aura attribué les valeurs Handicap les plus faibles. La course sera précédée d'un défilé. Un objet d'art sera offert au propriétaire, ainsi qu'un souvenir à l'entraineur, au jockey, au cavalier d'entrainement et à l'éleveur du cheval gagnant. Une couverture sera remise au cheval gagnant après la course.



Pour les valeurs indiquées ***, consulter la fiche cheval en cliquant sur son nom.
Horse Weight Rating Priorité Owner Trainer Purse
1 Mandour Usa M.ps. 4 A. 59,5 495 PCSSE ZAHRA AGA KHAN A.DE ROYER DUPRE 14.000
2 PLANTEUR (IRE) M.PS. 6 A. 59,5 *** CHEIK JOAAN BIN HAMAD AL THANI M. BOTTI 783.625
3 VERY NICE NAME M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** CHEIK ABDULLAH BIN KHALIFA AL T A.DE MIEULLE 646.741
4 UNBRIDLED COMMAND USA M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 . BAMFORD/BAMFORD/LAKIN/BERNSEN EAL. DUNLOP 22.738
5 NOVELLIST IRE M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** CHRISTOPH BERGLAR A. WOHLER 40.000
6 CAMELOT GB M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . D.SMITH/M.TABOR/MME J.MAGNIER AP. O'BRIEN 47.125
7 ST NICHOLAS ABBEY IRE M.PS. 6 A. 59,5 *** . D.SMITH/MME J.MAGNIER/M.TABOR AP. O'BRIEN 2.273.760
8 AL KAZEEM GB M.PS. 5 A. 59,5 *** DANIEL JOHN DEER RJ. CHARLTON 41.693
9 MELEAGROS IRE M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 485 ECURIE CERDEVAL / A. COUETIL A. COUETIL (S) 21.400
10 NOW WE CAN GB M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 480 WINFRIED ENGELBRECHT-BRESGES N. CLEMENT (S) 40.000
11 BALTIC ROCK IRE M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . GESTUT AMMERLAND JD. HILLIS
12 ENCKE USA M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . GODOLPHIN ENTRAINEUR EN INSTANCE -
13 ENERGIZER GER M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . GODOLPHIN ENTRAINEUR EN INSTANCE -
14 HUNTER'S LIGHT IRE M.PS. 5 A. 59,5 *** . GODOLPHIN S. BIN SUROOR 295.589
15 MASTERSTROKE USA M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . GODOLPHIN ENTRAINEUR EN INSTANCE -
16 SAINT BAUDOLINO IRE M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . GODOLPHIN ENTRAINEUR EN INSTANCE - 9.474
17 EISHIN FLASH JPN M.PS. 6 A. 59,5 *** KATSUHIKO HIRAI H. FUJIWARA 270.138
18 NAKAYAMA KNIGHT JPN M.PS. 5 A. 59,5 *** SHINICHI IZUMI Y. NINOMIYA 573.056
19 JOSHUA TREE IRE M.PS. 6 A. 59,5 *** . K.K. AL NABOODA/K. ALBAHOU EAL. DUNLOP
20 CHAMONIX IRE M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 . MME JOHN MAGNIER/MICHAEL TABO AP. O'BRIEN
21 MAXIOS (GB) M.PS. 5 A. 59,5 *** FAMILLE NIARCHOS J. PEASE (S) 142.680
22 EL SALVADOR IRE M.PS. 4 a. 59,5 MME ANNE-MARIE O'BRIEN AP. O'BRIEN 21.045
23 DUNADEN (FR) M.PS. 7 A. 59,5 *** . PEARL BLOODSTOCK LTD M. DELZANGLES 223.769
24 Albion Gb M.ps. 4 A. 59,5 *** MLLE KIRSTEN RAUSING A. FABRE (S) 16.600
25 FEUERBLITZ GER M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . RENNSTALL EIVISSA GMBH M. FIGGE
26 PASTORIUS GER M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 *** . STALL ANTANANDO MAR. HOFER 171.420
27 ORFEVRE JPN M.PS. 5 A. 59,5 *** . SUNDAY RACING CO. LTD Y. IKEE 536.624
28 SAONOIS M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 530 PASCAL TREYVE JP. GAUVIN 8.580
29 TOP TRIP (GB) M.PS. 4 A. 59,5 515 JOERG VASICEK F. DOUMEN (S)
30 GOING SOMEWHERE BRZ M.PS. 4 A. 59 BENJAMIN STEINBRUCH ENTRAINEUR EN INSTANCE - 6.012
31 ROMANTICA GB F.PS. 4 A. 58 *** KHALID ABDULLAH A. FABRE (S) 40.000
32 RIDASIYNA F.PS. 4 A. 58 545 S.A. AGA KHAN M. DELZANGLES
33 YELLOW AND GREEN GB F.PS. 4 A. 58 *** CHEIK ABDULLAH BIN KHALIFA AL T N. CLEMENT (S)
34 SNOW FAIRY IRE F.PS. 6 A. 58 *** . ANAMOINE LIMITED EAL. DUNLOP
35 GALVAUN IRE F.PS. 4 A. 58 *** . BALLYLINCH STUD A. FABRE (S)
36 FATE F.PS. 4 a. 58 *** . FAIR SALINIA LTD A.DE ROYER DUPRE 19.600
37 Haya Landa F.ps. 5 A. 58 490 MME ODETTE FAU MME L. AUDON 20.550
38 Pearls Or Passion F.ps. 4 A. 58 450 SCEA . HARAS DE SAINT PAIR F. ROHAUT (S) 11.000
39 Shirocco Star Gb F.ps. 4 A. 58 *** . HELENA SPRINGFIELD LTD H. MORRISON 1.978
40 WILD COCO GER F.PS. 5 A. 58 *** . K.I. FARM CORPORATION HRA. CECIL
41 SEDICIOSA (IRE) F.PS. 4 A. 58 500 MAURICE LAGASSE Y. BARBEROT 8.000
42 THE FUGUE GB F.PS. 4 A. 58 *** LORD LLOYD WEBBER J. GOSDEN
43 Harem Lady F.ps. 4 A. 58 465 ROBERT NAHAS D. SMAGA 32.500
44 GENTILDONNA JPN F.PS. 4 A. 58 . SUNDAY RACING CO. LTD S. ISHIZAKA 757.914
45 PIRIKA (IRE) F.PS. 5 A. 58 515 TERUYA YOSHIDA A. FABRE (S) 47.800
46 FLINTSHIRE GB M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** KHALID ABDULLAH A. FABRE (S) 12.500
47 DALWARI USA M.PS. 3 A. 56 480 S.A. AGA KHAN JC. ROUGET (S) 45.100
48 DAWALAN M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** S.A. AGA KHAN A.DE ROYER DUPRE 5.000
49 MANNDAWI M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** H.H. AGA KHAN A.DE ROYER DUPRE 3.750
50 SHIKARPOUR IRE M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** S.A. AGA KHAN A.DE ROYER DUPRE 12.500
51 ZAIDIYN M.PS. 3 a. 56 485 S.A. AGA KHAN M. DELZANGLES 17.000
52 ZAND IRE M.PS. 3 a. 56 H.H. AGA KHAN J. OXX
53 BUCKWEAT GB M.PS. 3 a. 56 CHEIK MOHAMMED AL MAKTOUM A. FABRE (S)
54 MUTIN M.PS. 3 a. 56 460 HAMDAN AL MAKTOUM JC. ROUGET (S) 17.000
55 PENGLAI PAVILION USA M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** CHEIK MOHAMMED AL MAKTOUM A. FABRE (S)
56 SINNDAR PERFECTION M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** CHEIK JOAAN BIN HAMAD AL THANI M. DELZANGLES
57 ASPHALTFIGHTER GER M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** GERARD AUGUSTIN-NORMAND E. LELLOUCHE
58 Park Reel M.ps. 3 A. 56 505 GERARD AUGUSTIN-NORMAND E. LELLOUCHE 50.600
59 NUNTIUS GER M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** CHRISTOPH BERGLAR A. WOHLER 3.000
60 CAPE WILLOUGHBY (GB) M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** ZALIM BIFOV M. PALUSSIERE
61 LOCH GARMAN IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** MME JAMES S. BOLGER JS. BOLGER 19.000
62 TRADING LEATHER IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** MME JAMES S. BOLGER JS. BOLGER 39.517
63 Indian Chief Ire M.ps. 3 A. 56 *** . D.SMITH/MME J.MAGNIER/M.TABOR AP. O'BRIEN 28.052
64 LION D'ANVERS M.PS. 3 A. 56 460 . ECURIE HARAS DE QUETIEVILLE J. VAN HANDENHOVE 27.500
65 Max Dynamite M.ps. 3 A. 56 490 . ECURIE HARAS DE QUETIEVILLE J. VAN HANDENHOVE 29.850
66 Garrogorille M.ps. 3 A. 56 455 . ECURIE LA VALLEE MARTIGNY EAR Y. DUREPAIRE (S) 22.350
67 PACO JET (IRE) M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** . ECURIE WILDENSTEIN A. FABRE (S) 5.000
68 OCOVANGO GB M.PS. 3 A. 56 515 PRCE A. FAISAL A. FABRE (S) 101.600
69 INICIAR GER M.PS. 3 a. 56 . GESTUT SCHLENDERHAN W. GIEDT
70 SECRET NUMBER GB M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** . GODOLPHIN S. BIN SUROOR 267.753
71 STEELER IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** . GODOLPHIN ENTRAINEUR EN INSTANCE -
72 SKY HUNTER GB M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** . GODOLPHIN SNC A. FABRE (S) 31.500
73 DAWN APPROACH IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** . GODOLPHIN/MME J.S. BOLGER JS. BOLGER 277.956
74 TELESCOPE IRE M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** . HIGHCLERE T.R. - WAVERTREE SIR MR. STOUTE
75 BATHYRHON GER M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** AVAZ ISMOILOV A. SHAVUYEV 2.787
76 BATTLE OF MARENGO IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** . M.TABOR/D.SMITH/MME J.MAGNIER AP. O'BRIEN 104.000
77 Festive Cheer (Fr) M.ps. 3 A. 56 *** . M.TABOR/D.SMITH/MME J.MAGNIER AP. O'BRIEN 13.650
78 MAGICIAN IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** . M.TABOR/D.SMITH/MME J.MAGNIER AP. O'BRIEN 41.693
79 MARS IRE M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** . M.TABOR/D.SMITH/MME J.MAGNIER AP. O'BRIEN 6.617
80 KIZUNA JPN M.PS. 3 A. 56 SHINJI MAEDA S. SASAKI 844.114
81 KINGSBARNS IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** . MAGNIER/TABOR/SMITH/O'BRIEN AP. O'BRIEN
82 RULER OF THE WORLD IRE M.PS. 3 A. 56 *** . MME MAGNIER/M.TABOR/D.SMITH AP. O'BRIEN 52.393
83 Bravodino Usa M.ps. 3 A. 56 510 FAMILLE NIARCHOS J. PEASE (S) 43.100
84 CHOPIN GER M.PS. 3 A. 56 . QATAR RACING LIMITED A. WOHLER 32.000
85 TRES BLUE (IRE) M.PS. 3 A. 56 460 HORST RAPP HA. PANTALL 29.200
86 SUPERPLEX M.PS. 3 a. 56 490 . RENNSTALL EIVISSA GMBH M. FIGGE 26.100
87 HILLSTAR GB M.PS. 3 a. 56 SIR EVELYN DE ROTHSCHILD SIR MR. STOUTE 3.302
88 Noble Galileo Ger M.ps. 3 A. 56 *** ECKHARD SAUREN MAR. HOFER 5.500
89 TABLEAUX USA M.PS. 3 A. 56 505 D. SMITH/M. TABOR/MME S. MAGN A. FABRE (S) 152.550
90 Sahawar M.ps. 3 A. 56 450 SIMON SPRINGER C. FERLAND (S) 25.250
91 TRIPLE THREAT M.PS. 3 A. 56 500 . TEAM VALOR A. FABRE (S) 52.000
92 MORANDI M.PS. 3 A. 56 505 DANIEL-YVES TREVES JC. ROUGET (S) 16.000
93 INTELLO (GER) M.PS. 3 A. 56 520 . WERTHEIMER & FRERE A. FABRE (S) 88.576
94 OCEANLINER USA M.PS. 3 a. 56 *** . WERTHEIMER & FRERE A. FABRE (S)
95 SIYENICA F.PS. 3 a. 54,5 *** H.H. AGA KHAN A.DE ROYER DUPRE 17.000
96 ZARDAKA IRE F.PS. 3 a. 54,5 *** S.A. AGA KHAN ENTRAINEUR EN INSTANCE -
97 FEREVIA (IRE) F.PS. 3 A. 54,5 480 H.H. CHEIK MOHAMMED BIN KHALIFA C. LAFFON-PARIAS 52.550
98 FLOTILLA F.PS. 3 A. 54,5 530 H.H. CHEIK MOHAMMED BIN KHALIFA M. DELZANGLES 257.130
99 LIBER NAUTICUS IRE F.PS. 3 A. 54,5 . BALLYMACOLL STUD FARM LTD SIR MR. STOUTE 52.117
100 Madame Defarge Ire F.ps. 3 A. 54,5 WILLIAM-JEROME GREDLEY MLW. BELL 5.274
101 DENIM AND RUBY JPN F.PS. 3 A. 54,5 . KANEKO MAKOTO HOLDINGS CO. LT K. SUMII 534.301
102 Moth Ire F.ps. 3 A. 54,5 *** . MME MAGNIER/M.TABOR/D.SMITH AP. O'BRIEN 66.867
103 JUST THE JUDGE IRE F.PS. 3 A. 54,5 *** . QATAR RACING LTD & SANGSTER F C. HILLS 112.229
104 ALUMNA USA F.PS. 3 a. 54,5 *** MLLE KIRSTEN RAUSING A. FABRE (S) 27.000
105 SILASOL (IRE) F.PS. 3 A. 54,5 505 . WERTHEIMER & FRERE C. LAFFON-PARIAS 16.000
106 PLANETE BLEUE (IRE) F.PS. 3 a. 54,5 *** . WILDENSTEIN STABLES LIMITED FH. GRAFFARD 17.500
• Closing

FORFAIT 1 Mardi 1 Octobre 2013 10h30 BOULOGNE
FORFAIT 2 Mercredi 2 Octobre 2013 10h30 ''
PARTANT PROBABLE Jeudi 3 Octobre 2013 10h30 ''
ENGAGEMENT SUPPLEMENT. Jeudi 3 Octobre 2013 10h30 ''
ANNULATION PART PROB Vendredi 4 Octobre 2013 10h30 ''
 
Are you trying to say I won't live another 20 years lol.

I didn't know the legal profession were good at health anaylsis. :)
 
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Mandour (4), Royer Dupre 120p,, very lightly raced, very good pedigree and has scope to go to the top, not sure to stay 12f. Interesting long shot.

NOVELLIST (4), A. Wohler, 122p, one of the best 3yo in Europe last season, good run first time out in the season, goes well on good but could prove better on softer ground, german horses tend to improve with age, one for the short list.

CAMELOT (4), A. Obrien, 120?, overrated since his 2yo campaign, lucky to win a very weak editions of the Guineas, Derby and Irish Derby, had a colic in Winter, workmanlike first time out and well beaten by Al Kazeen, no chance for me.

ST NICHOLAS ABBEY (6), A. Obrien, 129, top class, operating at his best as a 6yo, his best conditions are left handed and gf ground and uses to come to the Arc overcooked, I think they should focus in the Breeders Cup and Japan Cup where he could have a better chance than here.

AL KAZEEM (5) Royer Charlton 123+t?, promising 3yo, impressive last year in his only outing , in the sidelines for a year, 2 wins this years over 10f, won cozily the Sandown group , with Hamdams horse boosting the form at Ascot. Ridden with confidence at the Curragh, form not easy to rate and could be a better suited by 10f rather than the mile and a half.

EISHIN (6), good form in Japan, unlikely to be good enough.

MAXIOS (5) J. Pease,124+t , good pedigree, horse with a past of problems, has a very good turn of foot and goes on most grounds, some doubts about stamina.

ORFEVRE (5) Y. Ikee 130+$, I still have some nightmares with last years run but its time to turn page, hugely talented horse, likely to be the best horse in the world now , it has been a really surprising news for me that he has stayed in training, after last years antics in the race in spring, the Arc and the Japan Cup but they must believe the world about him, I have the feeling he could be even better over 10f , but he has shown enough good form over 12f to win a normal Arc, seeing Soumillon interview in RUK it seems what happened werenot only his quirks and that he had a problem, he goes on any ground and looks C. Soumillon will be on him again. At this moment the most likely winner but I don’t think the price is going to contract in the next month and a half.

ROMANTICA (4), A. Fabre 120p, what a pedigree, she was promising as a 3yo, has improved as a 4yo, he looks like a twin of his mother and as her she needs fast ground, so her last run under a penalty was a good one, being owned by Abdullah is a very unlikely runner but if the ground is fast I think she has the ability to win an Arc.

RIDASIYNA (4) M. Delzangles 120, good 3yo last season, good form on soft ground , unlikely to be involved.

SNOW FAIRY (6) Ed Dunlop 125, globetrotting mare, with good ability, I think she has other races that will suit her better. Past of injuries makes her a tricky antepost proposition.

THE FUGUE (4) J. Gosden,119, not seen out this year , good to firm is a must and likely not to run or be good enough.

GENTILDONNA (4), 124+, top class japannese mare, was not at her best in the Dubai race when she seemed not to enjoy the ground, his japanesse form is very good and on her high level she has a chance.

ZAIDIYN (3) M. Delzangles 105++, I have a very good feeling with this one, in the same pedigree cross of Zarkava, 3 runs, makes debut on a small track, won impressively on his next outing in a traditionally good race at Longchamp, goes next to the Hoqart where he given a pathetic ride by Lemaire on ground too fast and not given the chance to win in a slowly run raced drop in the field, I have the feeling he is a gr1 horse on soft ground and I would not be surprised he is the best Aga Khan horse in October.
Sky Hunter (3), A. Fabre 118p, improved form last time out in the Jockey Club, in good hands and likely to improve up in trip , but at the moment I don’t fancy him.

DAWN APPROACH (3) ,J. Bolger, 126+t ,unlikely runner, does not stay 12f.

MAGICIAN (3) A. Obrien 125p, impressive in his 2 runs this season, unlikely to be running over 12f this season but at this moment he looks the top 3yo in Europe.

MARS (3) A. Obrien, 115P, looks a 10f horse, not given the best of rides in the Derby, not overbig but can improve being so lightly raced.

KIZUNA (3), 120p*, looks the best 3yo in Japan , good pedigree, style of racing makes him a risky proposition in big fields , looks like coming to the Arc via Niel and if finding some improvement could be interesting.

KINGSBARNS (3) A. Obrien, (119p),as a 2yo he looked Ballydoyle Derby horse, injury problems, not for me at the moment.

RULER OF THE WORLD (3) A. Obrien, 119p, improving lightly raced Derby winner, showed good tactical speed in the Epsom Derby, good pedigree, not good enough for me at the moment.

INTELLO. (3), A. Fabre 122p, improving in every race, classy , with a turn of foot, it looks like the Arc will not be his target as Fabre is having the JLM as his next target, if he were going to be his Arc horse he would run in the Grand Prix de Paris and Niel. In case they turn the idea, he would need fast ground. Unlikely winner at the moment for me.
FLOTILLA(3) 120p M. Delzangles, unlikely runner, looks like 8-10f will be her range, firm ground is a must. Likely winner of the diane or Coronation St but this could proved too tough for a 3yo fillie.

Talent (3) R. Beckett, 116p, has scope, good nce in a race run to suit, unlikely to be an Arc fillie.


Esoterique (3), A. Fabre 118p, good french form, will be targeted the Diane, can improve but prefer others.


At the moment Orfevre is my clear pick.
 
Thanks for the write-up, suny.

I think this could be one of the years when the Irish Derby has a big say in sorting out the best three year old colt.

Pastorius is another contender who could be interesting.
 
The Soumillon interview was interesting, would love to know what the "problem" was Orfevre had.

Pastorius definitely worth a mention as he was impressive in the Ganay but can't help thinking there has to be a better horse out there.

Orfevre stands out though, if the ground is better than last year he looks rock solid.
 
Orfevre stands out though, if the ground is better than last year he looks rock solid.

He does stand out but the price differential between him and Gentildonna is excessive.

I've backed Sky Hunter at a nice price. Ran well enough over an inadequate trip on Sunday (also feel he'd have been closer and would have been second if he'd been held up rather than positioned as a pace chaser)
 
Intello has the right pedigree, trainer, jockey and with the ideal French preparation can be a real prospect.

Not sure running in the Fielden Stakes in April constitutes the right sort of prep. Or the Marois.
 
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