Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe

fonz said:
Golden Horn's car park draw wasn't an issue and it shouldn't have been the Doyler today.She should have won.
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She was always gonna be ridden how she was. You can argue had he made more use of her he wouldn't have had what he had at the end. Look she was unlucky but there was always a chance that was gonna happen, high chance even.

Golden Horn was a tad lucky he was allowed to slot in so easily after his early path. On top of that there was no pace so paid to be on the front end. That and the fact he was pretty good!
 
The whole world knew how she was going to be ridden. Marten Julian tweeted yesterday about how she would be held up and use her turn of foot to mow them down. What we didn't know is Doyle was holding her up until next year the way he rode her..
 
Diamond Geezer said:
Playing devil's advocate here but who on here claims to know the instructions given by Haggas to Doyle ? :whistle:
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He, Haggas, said he didn't give him any. 'Didn't want to confuse him'. Also said along the lines of ' he rides her, he knows her' etc. If she hadn't had to come round one horse when she did, she would have got there. He was unlucky.
 
G-G said:
He, Haggas, said he didn't give him any. 'Didn't want to confuse him'. Also said along the lines of ' he rides her, he knows her' etc. If she hadn't had to come round one horse when she did, she would have got there. He was unlucky.
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I agree.
 
Tanlic said:
The whole world knew how she was going to be ridden. Marten Julian tweeted yesterday about how she would be held up and use her turn of foot to mow them down. What we didn't know is Doyle was holding her up until next year the way he rode her..
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Give the lad a break will ye! apparently he was up till 3 in the morning watching re-runs of the 2009 arc.....
 
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A top race; tough on Sea Of Class but her her first race against colts in a big field of runners.
A great day for Irish racing with the first two in Arc Irish Oaks winners, The Foret winner having won a Tipperary Group 3 and the Abbaye winner having been placed in sprint Irish Oaks weekend.
Along with Gavin Cromwell's winner yesterday Irish form is up there with the best, even if Ballydoyle had a poor weekend.
Credit due to Frankie for cajoling the filly to win without whipping her, keeping her momentum and balanced in the final 100 metres.
Oisin Murphy, Gerard Mosse a wonderful mix of styles and attitudes, make racing a great sport.
If only those in charge of marketing can get the message across so that Wednesday at Cork the two men and a dog attendance might increase !
 
Mick Fitz on ATR was saying the draw beat Sea Of Class but I don't agree with that. She would have been dropped in whatever her stall. Although coming from the back in a big field she got as clear a run as could reasonably be expected, thanks in large part to her tactical speed. As several have said here, however, there's a difference between being dropped in and being stone last.

But the margins are very fine. Had Sea Of Class got up the discussion would have been whether Frankie went too soon on Enable.
 
Grey said:
Mick Fitz on ATR was saying the draw beat Sea Of Class but I don't agree with that. She would have been dropped in whatever her stall. Although coming from the back in a big field she got as clear a run as could reasonably be expected, thanks in large part to her tactical speed. As several have said here, however, there's a difference between being dropped in and being stone last.

But the margins are very fine. Had Sea Of Class got up the discussion would have been whether Frankie went too soon on Enable.
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His draw made his mind up surely and predictably so. If he was drawn near Enable I imagine the story would have ended differently as he would have tried to just track her through. The result would have been inevitable in that case.
The Curragh is deemed master ride and now his ride deemed shocker. Fractions in this game are huge. This outcome looked on the cards the minute the draw was made.
Completely agree with the Frankie comment. He would have got slagged had she nabbed him.
 
Grey said:
Mick Fitz on ATR was saying the draw beat Sea Of Class but I don't agree with that. She would have been dropped in whatever her stall. Although coming from the back in a big field she got as clear a run as could reasonably be expected, thanks in large part to her tactical speed. As several have said here, however, there's a difference between being dropped in and being stone last.

But the margins are very fine. Had Sea Of Class got up the discussion would have been whether Frankie went too soon on Enable.
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Longines sectionals for the last 3f (taken from Youtube) Leader's times only:

11.61s
11.85s
12.52s

Which suggest (to my unpracticed eye) that, though the pace was good, it wasn't overly strong, and Enable's petering out run owed more to lack of proper fitness than any misjudgement on Frankie's part.
It also demonstrates (imo) that - once again - the Coolmore cavalry misjudged their pacesetting role, and they were more responsible for Kew Garden's run than anything Ryan Moore did.
 
I thought Doyle ride the perfect race on a horse that loves to come from well back - changing tactics would have been potentially disastrous albeit he was he said a bit further back than he wanted due to being interfered with by Kew Gardens early.

She had a furlong plus to run Enable down and just could not quite do it .

Enable was a gallop short after her temperature and it showed otherwise she would have stayed clear I suspect .Brilliant to win two Arcs off such a limited and interrupted prep.
 
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Unlucky is the most overused and most forgiving statement in raciing...Doyle was 15 lengths behind among rags turning for home and even the commentator was screaming exactly that.

The richest race in Europe worth zillions in stud value....sorry unlucky doesn't come into it.

Eased into a better/closer position is what Doyle should have done about 3 to 4 lengths behind Enable and he could still have kept her switched her off...he is after all considered to be a professional.

Look at how much she had left at the end of the race..she was flying and full of running. So ask yourself; is moving into a more prominent position when the pace is normal going to expend more energy than she had left in the tank at the end?

I think not so stuff UNLUCKY the guy fxcked up
 
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Factor in that Sea Of Class is a feminine looking delicate filly having her first run against colts in a big field, as opposed to Enable , big, masculine and battle hardened. Was there another way to ride the runner up without being run knocked over in what can be a very rough race ?
 
He was in floods of tears walking back in.

Circumstances got her beat and despite backing her I can’t blame the jockey. Obviously if he could have another go he’d try and do something different but at the time he made a decision that ultimately wasn’t quite correct but came within a whisker of being masterful.

Fine margins and all that.

Incidentally, the new Paris-Longchamp is a fecking disaster. Gone are the days of leisurely wandering around and getting a beer at will,

Heaving grandstands with bar queues that make Cheltenham Gold Cup day look like paradise. 15 minutes queues to get into the gents and thankfully I didn’t have to negotiate the carnage that was the new betting terminal system. All this for the increased €75.

I’ll give it a miss next year.
 
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edgt said:
Factor in that Sea Of Class is a feminine looking delicate filly having her first run against colts in a big field, as opposed to Enable , big, masculine and battle hardened. Was there another way to ride the runner up without being run knocked over in what can be a very rough race ?
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Your post wandered my minds eye back to watching Liz Mc Colgan and Fatima Whitbread at the same Olympics.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
Lester advised Haggas connections to sit out back and pray; their prayers did not quite work in the same way as it did not work for Lester on Ribocco, Sir Ivor and Park Top in the late 60s.
It confirms my belief that God is an NH fan, two mile chasers His favourite.
Who are we to argue ?
 
Lester, and it should be Sir Lester, and Kieran told James he should ride her as he had ridden her before, Two of the best jockeys in the world. ever. You know the filly and you are going to ignore that advice? For every race you think Lester should have won, there are at least 20 he did when he 'shouldn't' have.
 
1 Sir Ivor could not handle Vaguely Noble in the mud

2 Park Top got stuck behind a wall of horses

3 Nijinsky was over the top and led briefly inside the final furlong

4 Never seen the 1967 Arc

Watching the Arc again today - Sea of Class gets out a good furlong out and makes little headway on Enable for 100 yards - she closes her down only really when Enable fades - as can be seen from both Cloth of Stars and Waldgeist also closing on her after she had kicked clear of them .
 
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The new Longchamp is getting huge criticism. Everyone knows that on Arc day they have to cater for tens of thousands of 'anglo-saxons' who like a drink and therefore need to pee. Some of them even like to have a bet (just imagine!) - even if most of them don't understand the PMU and block the windows while trying to work it out. The only explanation for the management getting this stuff wrong is that they don't give a toss.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...mp-had-an-opportunity-it-delivered-a-shambles
 
Grey said:
The new Longchamp is getting huge criticism. Everyone knows that on Arc day they have to cater for tens of thousands of 'anglo-saxons' who like a drink and therefore need to pee. Some of them even like to have a bet (just imagine!) - even if most of them don't understand the PMU and block the windows while trying to work it out. The only explanation for the management getting this stuff wrong is that they don't give a toss.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...mp-had-an-opportunity-it-delivered-a-shambles
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Sounds like the disastrous opening of the Rowley Mile stand in 2000 only ten times worse.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
Never mind the 'sir', tax cheating bastert.
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There are loads of tax cheating people walking round as Sirs'. There are dozens of 'entertainers' who life styles shouldn't be held up as good examples but who are walking round as Sirs and Lords. His crime should not reflect his total contribution to the sport.
 
I would say multiple wrongs shouldn`t make a right (or a Sir!) and in LP`s case he had plenty of "previous" with the taxman for deliberately evading tax but chose to ignore all warnings and carry on evading. Prosecution and prison was a last resort. To "honour" him with a knighthood would, IMHO, have been totally wrong.
 
He was only prosecuted once, and at the same time a member of the well known brewing family did exactly the same for equally large sums of money and didn't go to prison for it. There are far worse people out there walking round with knighthoods, or who have been made peers. Most of the 'honours' given out are a joke anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter in his case per say, but still a shame in my humble opinion.
 
Desperate Dan said:
I would say multiple wrongs shouldn`t make a right (or a Sir!) and in LP`s case he had plenty of "previous" with the taxman for deliberately evading tax but chose to ignore all warnings and carry on evading. Prosecution and prison was a last resort. To "honour" him with a knighthood would, IMHO, have been totally wrong.
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Though I recall reading in one bio at least of Lester that lots of top jockeys were suspected to be at it and he was the obvious example to make and that the Inland Revenue got a lot of back taxes from other jockeys soon after.

The Queen clearly forgave him he rode quite a few winners for her especially on Sharp Prod after his comeback.
 
Desperate Dan said:
I would say multiple wrongs shouldn`t make a right (or a Sir!) and in LP`s case he had plenty of "previous" with the taxman for deliberately evading tax but chose to ignore all warnings and carry on evading. Prosecution and prison was a last resort.
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No amount of wrongs should ever make a right.

And if we didn't have this archaic idea, which could only have been thought up by some kind of pea-brained inbred, of conferring titles on people we might be the better for it.
 
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