QM Champion Chase betting

Bonjers said:
CF was beat by Western bloody Warhorse in an atrocious Arkle.

There's nothing to suggest he'd have won today.

Nicholls is a master at continually finding improvement out of his horses.
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Which included Dodging BUllets. If Nicholls is such a master what does that make MUllins?
 
Euronymous said:
One Man was better over further than 2 miles. He pissed a QM

Native Upmanship was the epitome of a 2 and a half miler. He would have pissed that as well.
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Is this the same Champagne Fever who could not beat Western Warhorse over 2 miles last year? Echo Clive's sentiments about the quality of the posts here. Some people just need to crawl out of their pockets and see the light sometimes.
 
CF was aimed at the KGV. You do not aim horses at that race when 2m is their best distance.

Horses often step up in distance as they strengthen throughout career. They do not go back.

And thats before we get to his pretty so so record over fences
 
EC1 said:
no one said its a great renewal..now..it still needed winning..beforehand it was one of the best ever renewals..on paper
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i don't think anyone thought that. it was an interesting one. we had the 2 former champs with question marks over their heads (one probably the best chaser of the last 50 years), a course specialist and the progressive form horse.

the two ex champs didn't run to their mark, the course specialist was pulled & the form horse won by a length or so from somersby.

as a race it bombed.
 
you know if there are people here that cannot see that DB has improved..then get another hobby..you need to read improvement at this game..in fact the whole thing is based on reading future improvement..if you are judging DB on 12 months ago..take up another hobby is best advice
 
He's been campaigned over other distances. They thought he was a Gold Cup horse, they were wrong. I think it's very difficult to say if he has improved or not over 2 miles. We will never know but you'd have to say CF would have been in the frame today if he'd not been cut.
 
EC1 said:
as i've said before...people won't see the obvious sometime..i argued for 2 years that TNO was a 2.5 miler...now its clear what he is..not one person has admitted it ...
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There was only about three on here including myself who thought he could win it, you havn't proved masses and masses of people wrong about The New One... EC1, not on here anyway, if that's what you're chomping on the bit about....
Ps, you got TNO spot on, well done. More kudos to you for next years debate running up to the race! :)
 
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JamesRB said:
i don't think anyone thought that. it was an interesting one. we had the 2 former champs with question marks over their heads (one probably the best chaser of the last 50 years), a course specialist and the progressive form horse.

the two ex champs didn't run to their mark, the course specialist was pulled & the form horse won by a length or so from somersby.

as a race it bombed.
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agree with all this.As has been said in earlier posts,it's not a case of people admitting they got it wrong.Dodging Bullets by a length from Somersby.people may see it differently but I see that as .......well,crap.
 
TheBear said:
Which included Dodging BUllets. If Nicholls is such a master what does that make MUllins?
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Well Nicholls' horse has improved beyond all recognition. CF has no top level form at 2m over fences. DB now has three Grade 1's.

I didn't fancy the horse today, I backed SDG, but fair play to the horse and the trainer.
 
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EC1 said:
you know if there are people here that cannot see that DB has improved..then get another hobby..you need to read improvement at this game..in fact the whole thing is based on reading future improvement..if you are judging DB on 12 months ago..take up another hobby is best advice
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Who has said he hasn't improved? People were trying to negate the CF argument by using Western Warhorse. I was simply playing Devil's advocate. In fact I think I did say Dodging Bullets has improved. Not bothered enough to look back through the posts.

I did however point out before the race that anything that won would be knocked unless it was SS on the bridle. Look what happened......
 
marble said:
There was only about three on here including me who thought he could win it, you havn't proved masses and masses of people wrong about The New One EC1, not on here anyway, if that's what you're chomping on the bit about....
Ps, you got TNO spot on, so well done.
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oh right..so apart from being wrong about him..you now want to play down that anyone actually fancied him to win a CH..why wasn't he 20/1 then??

here are the words you need..i got it wrong..i'll learn from it

thats half the trouble on here..people with lots of gob before races..then disappear after them until dust dies down
 
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EC1 my top priority has not been to apologise to you since yesterday because I felt The New One could win.

I knew someone would have to rub the cigarette in but I thought it might come from someone else or some other person with a long term grudge..

Even when people are proved right about a race they still get bitter, and what better target than the people they proved wrong.

Seems like you want a friggin medal every time you call a race right?

You've got the full 364 days to go on about The New One but I won't be reading or taking part in or opening my 'gob' again on here so feel free to just snipe away as I certainly won't be feeding into that negative energy.
 
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TheBear said:
He's been campaigned over other distances. They thought he was a Gold Cup horse, they were wrong. I think it's very difficult to say if he has improved or not over 2 miles. We will never know but you'd have to say CF would have been in the frame today if he'd not been cut.
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no offence but this is what is so awful.

Hes run at 2m 4f twice in something like ten chase runs. The other 8 were 2m. That is not aiming for the GC

This isnt difficult to look up.

And quite frankly, only watching the horse and just seeing how he performs it is surely obvious to anyone that hes improved
 
It certainly has livened up.

Can't see why people are so strongly against the thought that CF would have had a decent chance today though. It's not a great leap.
 
clivex said:
CF was aimed at the KGV. You do not aim horses at that race when 2m is their best distance.

Horses often step up in distance as they strengthen throughout career. They do not go back.

And thats before we get to his pretty so so record over fences
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Kauto Star, Betfair to Tingle Creek; One Man, GC to QM; Voy Por Ustedes, World Hurdle to Arkle/QM...
 
Cruella said:
Kauto Star, Betfair to Tingle Creek; One Man, GC to QM; Voy Por Ustedes, World Hurdle to Arkle/QM...
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None of those horses was at very best at 2m though. That is the point (and im not having a hurdles comparison)

CF's so so form so far means that he would have to be at his absolute best at the distance. KS certainly didnt have to be not OM probably (who i forgot about). Different class of animal
 
marble said:
EC1 my top priority has not been to apologise to you since yesterday because I felt The New One could win.

I knew someone would have to rub the cigarette in but I thought it might come from someone else or some other person with a long term grudge..

Even when people are proved right about a race they still get bitter, and what better target than the people they proved wrong.

Seems like you want a friggin medal every time you call a race right?

You've got the full 364 days to go on about The New One but I won't be reading or taking part in or opening my 'gob' again on here so feel free to just snipe away as I certainly won't be feeding into that negative energy.
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i din't bring it up to rub anyone's nose it...i brought it up to demonstrate that i am not going down the same road with CF

the rest of your post is load of complete boll0x..the sort you've aimed at me before...and teh sort of stuff you only ever aim at me..so you can go and f00k yourself good style as far as i am concerned..a few others that single every word i post out can also go and f00k themselves if they reading

as far as negativity goes..i'm up to the f00lkin neck with it on here...sniping..don't even mention that to me..i've took more sniping than anybody on here..and i'll give it back in spades if necessary

the other day DO said to that muppet Reet Hard why he doesn't post his stuff on here..and that clown didn't understand why..its such as his input and sh1t like yours that deters anyone from bothering too much on here

i might just start singling certain people out..wait until they post..then nit pick every word..just to see how soon someone comes on criticising me for doing what some on here get away with year in year out

don't bother replying..not interested
 
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TheBear said:
It certainly has livened up.

Can't see why people are so strongly against the thought that CF would have had a decent chance today though. It's not a great leap.
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I think its pretty obvious why

For a start it denigrates a worthy winner and fine training performance. Secondly it is posted here as if it was an inevitability he would have won, a horse that (unlike db) doesnt win many top races. Thirdly, its hardly sticking ones neck out to say that hes probably better over further
 
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