Racing For Change

It's absolute shite.

Can't the European Pattern Committee interfere and change it?

Glad they've kept the Dewhurst at Newmarket rather than at the roulette wheel.
 
krizon said:
What's also been announced via an e-mailing is that Jockey Club Estates courses will be awarded increased fixtures next year, due to their commitment to increase prize money from their own purses. So the premiership league appears to be off and running...
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So has Ffos Las for guaranteeing to self fund. Fair play to them.
 
Also for the last few years the Ascot October meeting has always been on good to soft to soft ground. The Rowley Mile can get soft but generally the ground is much better there .

It is so bonkers in every single way.
 
Its change for changes sake. Simply to be seen to be "doing something". They will claim a success because of the inevtible bigger crowd at Ascot, but there would be a "bigger crowd" still with a few handicaps and a band, so its not really the point imo
 
Would be nice if more racecourses would put their hands in their pockets and fork out for prize money instead of relying on BHA and Levy Board hand outs.

If you put up the prize money you'll get the runners and thus the people through the gates to buy the overpriced food and drink (providing that's not been franchised out for a fixed fee).
 
It will be fascinating to see the support from the big stables for this - the Arc meeting is still surely going to be the main aim at this time of year. Particularly with French breeding becoming more and more of a consideration for the top breeders.
 
Not all food and drink is overpriced if you compare like for like with proper urban restaurants in most cities, IS. I would expect a very good 3-course meal in any decent restaurant (not pub grub, not a caff, not a bistro) to cost around £35-45. Plumpton's offering last Sunday was absolutely exquisite, and cost £37. I think beer is overpriced, especially with a smallish bottle costing £4.60, which I think is ridiculous. But, again, higher prices generally mean less necking it for the sake of it, which is one thing we all moan about - the bad behaviour of young(er) people when they get hold of too much cheap plonk. Can't have things all ways!
 
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It's all well and good charging £40 in the restaurant but when your average racegoer is turning up and it's £4.50 for a burger, £2 for a bottle of pop/water and £3.80 a pint (that's all courses not just those in the South) then they're certainly going to alienate the people who are putting money in the kitty.

I wish Plumpton had enough room in their restaurant for all the racegoers rather than 40-50.
 
It was cold and windswept at Ascot yesterday - what the hell it would be like in mid October in bad weather with soft ground....

The whole idea seems to me to be flawed for these reasons.

1 The British Champions Series is nonsense . What is the prize to be ? I can see no reason why it won't turn out to be as damp a squib as the Order of Merit . Also I see the Joel Stakes is to be included what champion wins that. It has memories of that silly Sovereign series idea . It will do nothing for the committed racing fan and the idea that people will be poring over their papers in mid October wondering whether horse A will snatch the miling division award from Horse B is just a joke .

Having a fillies and mare division is nonsense too . What if Filly A is a brilliant miler and Filly B a top class middle distance filly . Can Filly A or B add her points from non -filly races


2. The new Champions Day is to include both QEII and Champion Stakes. Both are to be very richly endowed but no longer will a Bosra Sham be able to come on from one to the other and if horses are going for the Breeders Cup they will just be too close to it .

3 The Champion Stakes often has a pretty big field - 10f at Ascot has a significant draw bias against the lower drawn horses - how is that an improvement

4. The likely ground just seems to have been ignored. Ascot is generally softer than Newmarket . I note that for the last three years the Oct meeting has been good to soft soft in places at Ascot . Who is going to prepare a Breeders Cup challenge in gruelling ground. Even yesterday Newmarket was described as good.

5. They suggest it won't affect the pattern . That frankly is rubbish - now the Diadem will be only a week from the Challenge but the future champions day is the real problem. To run the Middle Park and Dewhurst on the same day is absurd. Also they will be only a week after the Lagardere. The Rockfel a week after the Boussac.

The whole plan is idiotic . Apparently they have found lots of cash despite how cash strapped racing is . Surely it would have been much wiser to seek EPC approval to upgrade the races on the present Champions Day - a G1 Rockfel ,Challenge and Jockey Club Cup would be a proper ending and one that would be much less likely to undermine the races around it .
 
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Martin - the very well constructed marquee just past the stands is the overflow restaurant at Plumpton, and takes a good 250. You can pop out easily to see the horses, easily as good as going out onto the stands from the main one, and it has tvs inside to watch from, too. I went last Sunday and both were filled to capacity, so there is still a decent proportion of their gate willing to pay the prices. And they were not by any means rich old buggers in tweeds - plenty of young families and many more young people in their 30s, etc. Probably helped by the lure of Ladies Day with some amazing prizes up for grabs, but still, it rather gave the lie to people finding the pricing too much.
 
Being at ascot again changed my mind a bit yesterday. Why not go for it? Regardless of what purists think about the course (and I much prefer it to the old set up) the standard racing public will turn out. More so than the newmarket chmapions day which although I always liked is not that attractive in many ways and has a more downbeat atmosphere. Also its a fair guess that top end owners like a winner there more than anywhere else, however illogical that might seem to some

I can see this working very well

As regards the ground, its a fair point about newmarkets going but what's the past record of the other latter season ascot fixtures?
 
I see point about ground made already. See the logic re the breeders cup and where it all fits in but in terms of profiling the sport here in the UK (if they are looking for wider appeal or higher profile) the BC doesnt work
 
If the Breeders Cup is reverting to dirt the incentive to go there will be less than a handy pot at Ascot.
 
Why does British racing need international agreement to change its calendar? Did the French consult the HRI when they changed the French Derby to 10f which has had a knock on effect on the Irish Derby? Or were the Europeans consulted about the Breeders Cup reverting to dirt? I think they are fair game to make whatever changes they feel are in the best interest of the sport in Britain.
 
Yeah HRI would and were consulted. I seem to remember The Curragh being delighted thinking the French 12 furlong horses would come over as an alternative. It is the European pattern committee.
 
Gal I have no idea - it is almost as if they have announced it without waiting for the EPC meeting . Who the hell is this Karl Oliver bloke anyway ?

Only Chaparse of all people seems to have applied any sought of critical analysis to it amongst the journos who otherwise are fawning in their praise .

As November Handicap day remains the last day of the season why do they not at least make an effort to jazz it up a bit as they have done with the Sandown meeting on the NH .
 
Why does British racing need international agreement to change its calendar? Did the French consult the HRI when they changed the French Derby to 10f which has had a knock on effect on the Irish Derby? Or were the Europeans consulted about the Breeders Cup reverting to dirt? I think they are fair game to make whatever changes they feel are in the best interest of the sport in Britain
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Spot on

Also Flat racing has virtually no media profile after Royal ascot. That is not good enough and this day could well go some way towards adressing that. They need an "occasion". As much as I like Newmarket, it simply would never fulfil that role
 
What would happen if the Irish took the same view and decided to run the Irish Champion in competition with the British meeting? It would be a disaster because in flat racing the racing is so much more interlinked regardless of boundaries.

British racing (or indeed Irish racing) does not need an end of season meeting it just wants one.
 
Ardross said:
It was cold and windswept at Ascot yesterday - what the hell it would be like in mid October in bad weather with soft ground....

The whole idea seems to me to be flawed for these reasons.

1 The British Champions Series is nonsense . What is the prize to be ? I can see no reason why it won't turn out to be as damp a squib as the Order of Merit . Also I see the Joel Stakes is to be included what champion wins that. It has memories of that silly Sovereign series idea . It will do nothing for the committed racing fan and the idea that people will be poring over their papers in mid October wondering whether horse A will snatch the miling division award from Horse B is just a joke .

Having a fillies and mare division is nonsense too . What if Filly A is a brilliant miler and Filly B a top class middle distance filly . Can Filly A or B add her points from non -filly races


2. The new Champions Day is to include both QEII and Champion Stakes. Both are to be very richly endowed but no longer will a Bosra Sham be able to come on from one to the other and if horses are going for the Breeders Cup they will just be too close to it .

3 The Champion Stakes often has a pretty big field - 10f at Ascot has a significant draw bias against the lower drawn horses - how is that an improvement

4. The likely ground just seems to have been ignored. Ascot is generally softer than Newmarket . I note that for the last three years the Oct meeting has been good to soft soft in places at Ascot . Who is going to prepare a Breeders Cup challenge in gruelling ground. Even yesterday Newmarket was described as good.

5. They suggest it won't affect the pattern . That frankly is rubbish - now the Diadem will be only a week from the Challenge but the future champions day is the real problem. To run the Middle Park and Dewhurst on the same day is absurd. Also they will be only a week after the Lagardere. The Rockfel a week after the Boussac.

The whole plan is idiotic . Apparently they have found lots of cash despite how cash strapped racing is . Surely it would have been much wiser to seek EPC approval to upgrade the races on the present Champions Day - a G1 Rockfel ,Challenge and Jockey Club Cup would be a proper ending and one that would be much less likely to undermine the races around it .
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Very, very good post - these are the same issues I have.

Is there anything we could do about it?
 
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