Racing For Change

I am fascinated how a meeting with two G1 races , two G2s a G3 and the Cesarewitch can be described as a mediocre day's racing .

The new Ascot is just as soulless as Newmarket .

The Champions Series is an utter joke that makes the Order of Merit look exciting.

It is simply a fact that the ground in October at Ascot is generally worse than it is at Newmarket .
 
tdk said:
Don't know what the big fuss is regarding the ground and the British Champions Day.

We had soft ground at Longchamp last Sunday, yet it didn't stop top class horses turning up and providing a fantastic day's racing?

And - on the one hand we have people claiming that the Champions Stakes round a bend will be ridiculous as there will be a huge draw bias and some horses might as well not bother turning up - yet the race will apparently 'clash' with the QE2 and nothing will run... Mmmm - both can't be correct.

Let's face it - the current 'Champions Day' at Newmarket is a mediocre day's racing at a totally soulless racecourse with a limited capacity and poor infrastructure. If Ascot are going to inject some serious cash into the British Champions Day concept, it is hard to see how it won't be an improvement on what we have got now (even if it doesn't compete with Arc day and the Breeders Cup)
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'mediocre racing'??? The best 2 year old race in the world, a very decent 1m2 Group 1 (Juddmonte and Irish Champion superior but much better than the Ganay and Tattersalls), a historical long distance handicap, a top class 7 furlong Group 2, a Group 2 fillies race which has a reasonable case to be upgraded to Group 1 in the years to come, and the Pride Stakes.

If you honestly think this is mediocre, i think you would be better off following another sport, as if you can't enjoy and be excited by this, then there's no hope. Is it the Arc day? No, but nothing is, not even the Breeders Cup. However, with the probable exception of the first day at Royal Ascot and Arc day, nothing else is comparable.

And, Newmarket is soulless but lets move it to Ascot??? Newmarket may not have the same atmosphere as Longchamp or Cheltenham, but it is certainly nowhere near as soulless as Ascot. And, limited capacity?? Can you tell me when the last time Champions Day, good attendances as it has, was sold out?

However, the main reason it will not be an improvement is down to the destruction of the pattern, such as the removal of the possibilty of horses who run in the Middle Park to run in the Dewhurst, those in the QE2 to run in the Champion Stakes and many more instances caused by the shortsightedness of RFC.

Is RFC about improving racing or getting pssheads into Ascot one day a year?
 
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trackside528 said:
I actually think the problem with the Champions Day model is in the name itself. The British flat season (European for that matter*) is not compatible, nor should it aspire to be, with the creation of a "championship" style event in the manner of the Breeders' Cup or the Cheltenham Festival. The idea of seeing races such as the Juddmonte/Sussex (which would surely be the logical conclusion if we were to attempt to go down the American route) as mere "preps" for the Champion/QEII is ludicrous in the extreme. If it were to catch on it would presumably discourage from horses stepping up or down in trip, which can only be a negative in my book.

*The Arc aside, does anybody actually consider any of the other Group 1's, quality races though they certainly are, as "championship" races? Not a chance for me.
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Agree with all of that.

Do we really want flat racing to go the way of the jumps where so many of the top races are essentially preps for Cheltenham?
 
Great to see Poet's Voice supplemented for the Champion Stakes.

Good to see Godolphin showing what a nonsense the change to the pattern is - if RFC understood racing at all, they should be embarassed.
 
And, limited capacity?? Can you tell me when the last time Champions Day, good attendances as it has, was sold out?
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Well thats the point isnt it?

I wouldnt be suprised (and there is a resource for this somewhere) if tomorrows Ascot meeting has a similar crowd to champions day

What strikes anyone who has been to champions day is that although its a fine card, the atmosphere and crowd simply doesnt reflect that. I like the day, but it is slightly low key

If they are looking for a really big day (and why not go for it?) then ascot is clearly the venue. As TDK says, newmarket doesnt quite work
 
Well, let's hope Ascot's cured its fungal infection by the time any of this rears its head! I found out from Beccy Green, who's just left Fontwell Park to become PA to Chris Stickels, that it's not beetles, larvae, or root gall nematodes that's been discolouring the turf and loosening it - it's a fungus. I suggested several tubes of Canestan might sort it out.
 
To be fair, all these people going on about horses not being able to run in both the Middle Park and Dewhurst as well as the QE2 and the Champion Stakes are being a little OTT imo.

It is doable to still run in both, as Jim Bolger will no doubt prove. :D
 
I really dislike the Ascot straight track . They all run down the middle and if you are on the outside of the group whichever side the horses seem to have little chance - yellow fungal patches or not .

It is difficult to understand how they have made such a Horlicks of the turf on that track - Ffos Las doesn't seem to have had equivalent problems with a new track.
 
Visually the track has looked in awful condition for the last few weeks - if we were watching the Breeders Cup on such a surface we would all be slating it.
 
Over-watering perhaps????

Its incredible how some jump tracks are good, good to firm ground yet the flat courses are soft ground at this time of the year. How much water do the clerks put on during the summer??? My answer is an awful lot.
 
Well, they're wrong with assuming 'every racecourse' has a separate Annual Members' bar, for a start! Brighton doesn't, Fontwell ditched theirs a few years ago along with dedicated AMs parking and outings to other courses, Lingfield Park doesn't (they share the OTs), Windsor doesn't (same as Lingfield), and so on... Plumpton has a very small space for them (certainly not enough if they all came at once) with one tv in it.

Thing is, a space for 300 people who certainly don't always turn up on the day to use it, who rarely eat anything other than the sandwiches they bring from home, who rarely drink more than the free tea or coffee - you can do so much more with that space to generate a much bigger income. There's also the cost (usually around £1000 per season) of putting a man on the door to check for the correct badges, the cost of hiring in the Tote lady, and the cost of one or two bar servers - you can probably easily knock off £5,000 right off for just those, then the cost of producing the metal badges and all the paid admin time to administer the membership. If there's a dedicated car park, add in another £1000 for the car park attendant to ensure the 'wrong badges' don't get in. Yes, they bring in some income, but they also need to realise how much they also cost to administer.

Courses only like AMs because they can plan on having a lump sum of money to play with during membership renewal time. AMs like the membership because the cost of individual attendance, spread out over the number of fixtures plus the several reciprocal meetings at other courses and sports venues which will be included, is usually well under half the price per meeting of the regular entrance fee, including concessions.

Once a course sees it can better utilise any rooms or parks which members take up for a much better income, AMs can forget about perks. The courses consider their low per-meeting entry to be a perk enough in the end.
 
Not a good sign when someone as well respected as Jim Mcgrath is walking away from the BHA due to these guys ideas!
 
I think the word was respected rather than revered !!!

Are you a fan of the new Champions Day rory ?
 
rorydelargy said:
In what circles is Jim McGrath revered, exactly?
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Harsh Gearoid!

I'm amused by the notion that not prostrating oneself before the greatness of Jim McGrath is viewed as being tantamount to treason. I'm sure he's a fabulous bloke, but can anyone remind me of anything of any import he has ever said?
 
rorydelargy said:
Harsh Gearoid!

I'm amused by the notion that not prostrating oneself before the greatness of Jim McGrath is viewed as being tantamount to treason. I'm sure he's a fabulous bloke, but can anyone remind me of anything of any import he has ever said?
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Is that what you understand by the term "well respected"?
 
"I backed him at 10/1 last April after he won at Aintree"

Jim McGrath mentions his ante post position on Binocular, the current 3/1F when asked about the Cheltenham festival
 
Steve T said:
Is that what you understand by the term "well respected"?
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Poorly worded no doubt, but I ask again (and not facetiously, honest) why do forumites specifically respect him? In all my time here and on TRF etc, I don't believe I've read a single post praising him. If that's the case, then it seems a tad odd that his resignation is being cited as a reason to denigrate RFC.
 
He is a well-known figure , long in a senior position at Timeform who generally talks rationally on Channel 4 , unlike most of his colleagues . I suspect that is why .

I should like to know what he objects to and why - and consider what he has to say rather than assume it is right just because he is well known.
 
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