Raven's Pass

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Colin Phillips

At the Start
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For those who think that he's a certainty, a word of warning (for what it's worth) from Johnny Gos in the RP this morning.:

JOHN GOSDEN has issued a warning ahead of the seasonal debut of Raven's Pass in Thursday's Craven Stakes.

The Elusive Quality colt has been a bit of a handful at homeof late and Gosden is using the traditional 2,000 Guineas trial as a way of taking some of the gas out of his promising three-year-old.

The 5-1 second-favourite with the sponsors Stan James for the first Classic of the season, Gosden is keen to stresshis prep race is not the priority.

He said: "He's too fresh and well and needs the race to settle down a bit.
"You could describe him as ebullient, effervescent and all of those type of words, but at least he is well.

"I would have preferred to have run him over seven furlongs, but Newbury (at the weekend) is on the soft side already and there is more rain forecast so it made sense to come here.

"This is a trial and he is there to do his best but tomorrow is not D-Day.

"I have won the Craven and other trials with horses who have made the trial their D-Day. I don't mean to say he'll be pussy-footing tomorrow, but he is being trained for the Guineas."
 
Sorry, Euron, did look, couldn't find, eyesight must be failing!!!!!!!...................could a moderator please move to appropriate thread.

Phew..........'shoot the messenger', be damned. :what:
 
Dont think Twice Over will beat him again! we have seen the 2000gns winner today Get in Ravens Pass!
 
That was not the type of trial I would like to see a horse in with just 2 weeks to go to the Guineas.
 
I backed Raven's Pass today and think he was given a less than forceful ride - ironic being ridden by the strongest rider in the business.

Fortune gave him one tap and that was it - hands and heels.

I am the last person to want to see horses abused, but do the rules not say a horse must be ridden to obtain the best possible position?

Obviously connections are more interested in the Guineas, but why bother giving him a prep if it ends up being a piece of fast work? Will be interesting to see how Fortune rides him in the Guineas.
 
Also I am slightly worried now that Ravens Pass has failed to win his last two races now after looking the likeliest winner half a furlong out.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens to Jupiter Pluvius in the betting markets. I assume The Bogberry was there as a marker, was 6 lengths close enough to keep the Ballydoyle team happy?
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Apr 17 2008, 03:22 PM


Probably the only downer is the emergence of yet another rival.
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Aye, but another good un makes Guineas what it should be Gareth - a proper race
 
Guineas aim innit, so i'd presume Gosden has left a bit to work on, also Fortune didn't go for him either at business end


Should give connections and AP voucher holders great encouragement of turning the short head defeat around
 
Originally posted by Colin Phillips@Apr 17 2008, 03:31 PM
Didn't Fortune say he still has doubts about the horse's stamina?!
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He didn't say he didn't think he would stay, but when initially asked by Nick Luck, the silence was thunderous (for the purposes of Sir Alan Sugar that means his silent told us as much as if he had explicitly described his feelings!!).

He looked as if he came to win the race, and Fortune for a brief moment even seemed to take a pull. My guess is the horse emptied rapidly and he knows in his heart of hearts he will not stay the trip in a truly run Guineas.

Well spotted Colin.
 
My guess is the horse emptied rapidly
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Wouldn't that have been more obvious? Or does he really outclass the winner so much that even whilst empty he could battle him all the way to the line?
 
I wouldn't totally discount him - the reason I backed him was when I looked at the OR versus the 88 runner up against Twice Over I thought the gulf in class meant even an 85% fit Raven's would win.

Come Guineas day though I really don't see him reversing anything with New Approach - a dour grinder, a bit like Giants Causeway. It is looking increasingly difficult to make an argument against New Approach. Personally I think he ran below his best in the Dewhurst and still won.
 
Originally posted by numbersix@Apr 17 2008, 05:52 PM

Come Guineas day though I really don't see him reversing anything with New Approach - a dour grinder, a bit like Giants Causeway. It is looking increasingly difficult to make an argument against New Approach. Personally I think he ran below his best in the Dewhurst and still won.
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Giants Causeway? Fair enough, that`ll make RP Kings Best then, who was also runner-up in the Craven.
 
Originally posted by numbersix@Apr 17 2008, 03:55 PM
I backed Raven's Pass today and think he was given a less than forceful ride - ironic being ridden by the strongest rider in the business.

Fortune gave him one tap and that was it - hands and heels.

I am the last person to want to see horses abused, but do the rules not say a horse must be ridden to obtain the best possible position?

Obviously connections are more interested in the Guineas, but why bother giving him a prep if it ends up being a piece of fast work? Will be interesting to see how Fortune rides him in the Guineas.
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Why beat the arse off him today and bottom him for the guineas.

And the rule about being ridden for its best possible placing does not state that you have to use your whip. You can see Jimmy gave him a little flick which has not made him pick up so why get stuck into him when he is obviously running on empty needing the run. The ground on the course is riding more testing than the official going at the minute so no doubt he would have got tired.

Also we were told last week to get on and back Twice Over for the Guineas so i wasnt surprised it won today as it has been flying on the gallops up here.
 
Fudge, I understand all that, but I am merely comparing, I guess, Jimmy Fortune's typical power packed finish with his effort today. You are quite right, connections did not want to bottom him today, but for punters who have backed him today that is little consolation.

If this was the Guineas today, I suspect his ride would have been totally different. Thats all.

Anyway, I would be delighted if Twice Over won the Guineas to continue the phoenix like resurgence of Warren Place - so I hope your ante-post bet comes good for you!
 
numbersix, this wasn't some handicap - it was a race for a purpose, as anyone who follows flat racing would know.

And Gosden's warning yesterday couldn't have been clearer, short of saying 'My horse isn't going to be ridden out to win tomorrow'! He actually SAID he wasn't going to leave the Guineas on the field of the Craven!

Anyone backing in these Trial races - that should imo really be 'PREP' races - backs at their peril
 
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