Retirements & Departures 2011

rorydelargy said:
If you want to browse, Jeremy Grayson started a thread on TRF called "Look Who's Pointing" which is of interest.
Click to expand...

I'm entirely happy to reproduce my postings from that thread on Talking Horses as well, should Krizon or anyone else here be interested. Maybe Irish Stamp, the other major contributor to Look Who's Pointing, might like to do the same.

Krizon - if you haven't visited said thread on TRF since Rory's post of a year ago above, it does mostly tend to take the form of me highlighting what well-known names have been entered for the forthcoming weekend's action; Irish or me mulling on some performances we've liked; and other folk asking us if horses they've not heard of for ages have washed up in Points in the interim (to which the answer is yes about half the time!).

gc
 
Same here Jeremy- if anyone has a horse they'd like to know about then just ask, plenty of useful types from rules racing at the moment - Palypso De Creek, Gidam Gidam, Ravethebrave, Khacaturian and New Alco amongst others and a few lesser lights have been performing well including long standing Maiden's Nobby Kivambo and Where's My Slave who both scored on the 18th December at Whitfield after 20+ rules starts without scoring and the ex-Irish What A Laugh who's now 2/2 this season for the Cheshire-based Gary Hanmer and ridden by stable jockey Josh Hamer.

Amongst Saturday's entries at Cottenham (Cambridgeshire) are Money Tree (already a scorer in Devon this season), Tumbling Dice (ex-G2 winner who came back to some sort of form at Whitfield last time), Shrewd Investment (another scorer in Devon last month), Old Si (useful staying chaser in Ireland), Cedrus Libani (decent Novice Chaser a few seasons back), Silver Jaro, Whereveryougoigo (one of Roddy's horses), Bay Cherry, Camisky, Mount Benger, The Luder, Calgary Jock, Kicks For Free, Madison De Vonnas, Picaroon and Sizing Ireland amongst others.

Martin
 
Hallo, Jeremy: I haven't joined TRF - or even looked in on it - so haven't read anything on it. I have got the South-East Pointing site saved to my Favourites (so far, only had time free to visit South Godstone - Tim McCarthy's outfit); I know Irish is tremendously keen on pointing and yes, I'm always interested in hearing of who's left Rules and gone pointing. Or vice versa! So the answer is yes, please, anything you would care to share with us would be most welcome. I do love to discover, from time to time, that some old dears - or not so old dears - are enjoying whizzing around the fields. A great oldster who went off the boil under Rules was SENOR EL BETRUTTI (think I've spelled that right!) and flourished once ptp'ing.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that one of our judges, Felix Wheeler, who rides work for Gary Moore in the early mornings before his BHA hat goes on, also does some pointing, so it's also very interesting to find out which humans are participating!

Many thanks - look forward to some good stuff on here. (Maybe IS might like to consider us having a new section for PTP info???)
 
Martin: great stuff! Lovely to see some names there - explains the gaps between retirements and, uh, 'permanent' departures! Would it be possible for TH to run out a separate section for PTPs, do you think? Then we could all track them more easily and add those coming in from Rules and note those leaving to go under them. We've got a section for Bloodstock, so that would make it easier to locate and read.

Cheers!
 
rorydelargy said:
If you want to browse, Jeremy Grayson started a thread on TRF called "Look Who's Pointing" which is of interest.
Click to expand...

Grasshopper said:
Unlike the rest of the site these days - mores the pity
Click to expand...

Have to admit, with the heaviest of heavy hearts, that the old place is stretching even my appreciable patience nowadays too, Grassy. And given what a lot I owe it, I don't say that lightly.

gc
 
I can start a thread on here for UK Pointing for sure Kri - not sure there's enough demand for a seperate section but something similar to as appears on TRF is certainly possible :)
 
krizon said:
Hallo, Jeremy: I haven't joined TRF - or even looked in on it - so haven't read anything on it. I have got the South-East Pointing site saved to my Favourites (so far, only had time free to visit South Godstone - Tim McCarthy's outfit)
Click to expand...

Well, you might as well start with one of the best in your Area! It's a subjective opinion, of course, but to my thinking Godstone is one of the two best Pointing courses in the South East administrative Area, along with Charing in Kent. It's in a surprisingly quiet, beautiful parkland location, considering the M25 is barely a mile away, and despite having the topography of a piece of corrugated iron (in the sense of being as wavy, not as hard underfoot!) isn't as bad a viewing track as many reckon - you've just got to pick your spot.

In common with Charing, field sizes tend to hold up here a bit better than elsewhere in the Area, likewise the quality. It was also a course much beloved of dear old Carryonharry, who was still winning Ladies Opens there and elsewhere until 2010 - aged 16. He was retired after a winless 2011, but made himself useful as guard of honour at his rider Cynthia Haydon's wedding in August. This is all true!

gc
 
Last edited:
Irish Stamp said:
I can start a thread on here for UK Pointing for sure Kri - not sure there's enough demand for a seperate section but something similar to as appears on TRF is certainly possible :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, let's do that, Martin - probably not great etiquette of me to hijack a lost / retired thread with Pointing stuff to this extent (((blushes))).

gc
 
krizon said:
I'm not entirely sure, but I think that one of our judges, Felix Wheeler, who rides work for Gary Moore in the early mornings before his BHA hat goes on, also does some pointing,
Click to expand...

Felix has bought Dead Or Alive out of the Tim Vaughan yard for Pointing this winter, and with his military background I'm sure a visit or two to Sandown will be factored in between his jaunts between the flags.

When not riding in Points, Felix commentates in them. He's the caller of choice at many of the Dorset tracks (Milborne St Andrew and Badbury Rings for certain), and also picks up gigs at the likes of Larkhill, Barbury, Whitfield, Cotley Farm and elsewhere.

He has his own catchphrase, too; "The one you sent off favourite". Barely a race goes by without that being slipped in!

gc
 
Last edited:
Lovely story, Jeremy and yes, I can believe it! Two of the folks I work with at a number of courses in the South/South East are keen supporters of ptp and the husband has also hunted with the Burstow, so I attached myself to them for an intro - the first puzzlement being why several horses were entered up in two or three races on the same day! Blimey, I thought, and some people make a fuss about horses running twice in a week... all was revealed later, though, when they were selected to run in just one.

You're so right about 'corrugated' - whoooeee - uphill and down dale isn't half the story!

I'm moving towards Chichester next month and had a look last night to see if there were any ptp courses nearish to there - Arundel way, or inland towards Midhurst, Petworth, etc. I'm not sure I looked in the right places because I couldn't find any! So if you or Irish can point any out to me - even the Hampshire borders - I'd be grateful, although whenever the SE fits with my racing schedule, I'm planning to see more in 2012.
 
Irish, you'll probably have to cut 'n' paste this whole lot - yes, not a full section like 'other sports' but under a separate title would be fab.

Jeremy, that's super info on Felix - he's very helpful to me at Brighton in particular during the backstage tours I take. He loves to show racegoers his photo finishes and then bring out a large magnifying glass - so high tech! - and ask them to decide which one they think has won. He's very charming with them all - as an ex-Queen's Equerry should be!

I saw him riding the late BELUGA at Folkestone and his style reminded me of what John Oaksey self-deprecatingly called his: 'the old English lavatory seat'! Very careful and very proper! I hear he might try for a tilt at the Foxhunter's in March?
 
Last edited:
Granger: thanks for that update - much better than first thought. Boy, all these lads are tough wee blighters! Seb Sanders got kicked by the Prescott debut 2y.o. ITALIAN RIVIERA (withdrawn) at Lingfield today - a serious thump at the base of his ribs, just missing his guts. He was able to creep out of the parade ring, wincing and doubled-up, but apart from being stood down for the day, he'll be back into action asap. Respect!
 
krizon said:
I'm moving towards Chichester next month and had a look last night to see if there were any ptp courses nearish to there - Arundel way, or inland towards Midhurst, Petworth, etc. I'm not sure I looked in the right places because I couldn't find any! So if you or Irish can point any out to me - even the Hampshire borders - I'd be grateful, although whenever the SE fits with my racing schedule, I'm planning to see more in 2012.
Click to expand...

Your nearest Pointing venue is probably going to be Parham, then:

http://www.pointtopoint.co.uk/go/courses/parham.html

I've got tentative plans to do Parham and Hackwood Park (near Basingstoke) in successive days on the last weekend in March, but a few things depend on that yet. I can't vouch personally for Parham as a day out as it's one of the South East Area courses I've not done yet, but I understand the warnings about low-flying aircraft are entirely with foundation!

The other venue anywhere close to the Sussex coast is Catsfield:

http://www.pointtopoint.co.uk/go/courses/catsfield.html

Now this one I have been to and I liked it a lot. Imagine a pre-modification Haydock run around right-handed and with slightly raised bends, and you're about there. Field sizes cut up rather, as it's as stamina-sapping a track as there is in the locality and that puts off quite a few, but the viewing's great and it's a friendly place.


COMPLETE SOUTH EAST AREA POINTING FIXTURES 2012:
==========================================
Su 29/01/12 - Charing
Su 12/02/12 - Godstone
Su 19/02/12 - Charing
Su 26/02/12 - Detling
Su 04/03/12 - Tweseldown (see below)
Su 11/03/12 - Godstone
Sa 17/03/12 - Penshurst
Sa 24/03/12 - Parham
Sa 31/03/12 - Godstone
Sa 07/04/12 - Charing
Mo 09/04/12 - Aldington
Su 15/04/12 - Catsfield
Sa 21/04/12 - Penshurst
Sa 28/04/12 - Parham
Sa 05/05/12 - Peper Harow

The aforementioned Hackwood Park is one of two courses in Hampshire, both of which are just off the M3. Hackwood, where I've been the racereader for the last five seasons, is just outside of Basingstoke and is one of the most fertile grounds for pony racing on the Pointing scene - there are always two such races at the start of each meeting, and Brendan Powell Jr is the latest local talent from that pool to make his mark under Rules.

Hackwood race on Sunday, March 25th and Easter Monday, April 9th.

Tweseldown, meanwhile, is a former Rules course not so far away from Church Crookham and Aldershot, and has many unique features including the only under-course subway at a British racetrack. It hosts meetings for hunts in both the Sandhurst and South East Area - the Sandhurst ones are on Sunday, December 11th (so you've missed it) and Sunday, February 5th.

Hope this helps, and very best wishes,

Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)
 
Last edited:
krizon said:
I saw him riding the late BELUGA at Folkestone and his style reminded me of what John Oaksey self-deprecatingly called his: 'the old English lavatory seat'! Very careful and very proper! I hear he might try for a tilt at the Foxhunter's in March?
Click to expand...

I'm sure he will! Beluga had to be put down in the aftermath of going wrong at Hackwood Park, "much to the owner's extreme annoyance", according to Mackenzie and Harris. That might infer he thought more could have been done to save Beluga, but I genuinely don't know the story there.

Dead Or Alive, meanwhile, is perfectly entitled to qualify for Cheltenham, and his win in a Mens Open at Lydstep for Abbi Vaughan last February means he's already halfway there. Realistically, though, he could do with winning a hunter chase between now and March 1st to lessen the risk of him being balloted out. The first hunter is at Newbury on Wednesday, January 18th - the earliest any such race has ever taken place in this country by the thick end of a fortnight.

Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)
 
Last edited:
That is stunningly helpful, GC! Parham would be very doable and some others, too. I want to expand my days out doing 'things' rather than slumping around boring myself and there are plenty there to give me the impetus.

Pony wise, it's young George Crate, Peter's son, who's been such a shining light on the circuit around here, but I don't know if he's planning to translate his talent into real race riding. Peter has a handful of racehorses, ELNA BRIGHT being one mainstay at Lingfield (as I'm sure you know!).

Very many thanks again for all that kind work - I'll write it all out and then compare it with Rules fixtures and squinch in whatever I can. Brill!
 
Any of our Irish contributors into the Irish P-T-P scene?

Some information on that would be most helpful, there seem to be a lot of bumpers being won by horses spotted in Irish points.
 
I can cover that too Colin ;)

Two good SE riders to look out for are George Gorman (son of Marcus and Carolyn of Cape Stormer fame) - he's already won on the ex-Gary Moore trained She Is A Cracker at Cottenham earlier in the season and Frankie Hickman who's also scored this season (possibly unlucky not to score twice) on her mothers Mount Sandel.

Freddie Mitchell (Jack's brother, Philip's son) is another decent pilot in the South East as well of course as the ageless Phil York.
 
Kieran Burke just announced Sparky May retired due to leg injury, big shame for a small stable.
 
That is a shame. When a "Saturday horse" leaves racing, whether it's planned or untimely, it must hit a small stable much harder than a larger yard with a potential production line and plenty of other chances to get the trainer's name out there. I imagine they would have hoped to get at least another couple of seasons on the track with her before she went off to the paddocks in due course. I wonder who she'll be covered by - she's a Grade 2 winner & Grade 1 placed, by the current best British-based NH stallion so would be a valuable addition to any NH sire's book.
 
Colin Phillips said:
Any of our Irish contributors into the Irish P-T-P scene?
Click to expand...

Of the two of us Martin's yer man for that, definitely! He does the trips out to Ireland and has the much better steer on the form over there - I have to specialise on the British stuff necessarily.

Apparently there is Pointing of a fashion in the US as well, but I don't think either of us can help you out with that. :lol:

Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)
 
Yes, when I was originally trying to find a pointing site, I was surprised to come up with some in the US. Really didn't think they were much into that, or hunting with hounds, but they do that, too.
 
Back
Top