Road To The Champion Hurdle

granger said:
Binocular had a good look at his arse lately :)
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:)

did you think Binocular was at his best?

i'm not a massive fan of B but his FTO run wasn't anything near his CH win

if you are measuring PC along those lines i think you could be over rating PC by some way..imo
 
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granger said:
I thought he was impressive on his own merits. He is just as entitled to improve from that run as Binocular was
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just doesn't strike me as CH type tbh..i would never rate PC off B from that run..we know that B isn't the most consistent horse anyway..on top of guessing the fitness level
 
PC did not have conditions to suit at Newbury last time out, he is possibly the most straight forward than many of the other principals.

JohnJ
 
What's not completely straightforward about Menorah? Everybody was saying he needs a well run race despite the fact he'd already won a Supreme and a Greatwood when neither were run at a flat out gallop. He then does it off a slowish pace today.

My problem with Pedler's Cross' price is that his form as of yet isn't some 10/12lb shy of Champion Hurdle winning standard. Granted he's open to improvement but I just think he's too short. Menorah keeps getting the job done why others keep needing excuses made for them.
 
Everyone around me loves Menorah.The late money on Betfair spoke volumes and it's impossible to criticize that performance.
 
davidjohnson said:
What's not completely straightforward about Menorah? Everybody was saying he needs a well run race despite the fact he'd already won a Supreme and a Greatwood when neither were run at a flat out gallop. He then does it off a slowish pace today.

My problem with Pedler's Cross' price is that his form as of yet isn't some 10/12lb shy of Champion Hurdle winning standard. Granted he's open to improvement but I just think he's too short. Menorah keeps getting the job done why others keep needing excuses made for them.
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Good post.

He's rock solid, and more likely to run his race than the others at the top of the market.
 
LUKE said:
Everyone around me loves Menorah.The late money on Betfair spoke volumes and it's impossible to criticize that performance.
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That was seriously good today from Menorah - thought at one stage he was going to be done for toe but Johnston just took a fresh hold, then squeezed and --- whosh--- race over in two strides!! I've covered my Peddlers bet with a saver on Menorah at 9's - could have got it the wrong way round on today's evidence. Both Tizzard fancied horses ran poorly as did Hey Big Spender last week. Is there a little problem there I wonder?? Very heavy late money for Menorah was to be expected at those odds - how Cue Card was as short as he was is beyond me.
 
DJ,

I think Menorah does have a quirk, although he certainly didn't display it today. In the Supreme and not so much the Greatwood when he the front he idled. He hit the front just after two out in the Supreme and definitely idled in the closing stages and was lucky not to be caught by Get Me Out of Here.

Peddlers is straight forward in the sense he can make the running, can be held up off the pace, I don't think the same can be said of Menorah. I think both horses are top class, but I do favour Peddlers Cross of the two.

Hamm,

Why would Peddlers Cross not be liable to run his race? He has yet to be beaten

JohnJ
 
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He was actually a little reversed in terms of how he races today - usually he is a powerful traveller who just does enough (idles when hitting the front) but today he actually looked a little in trouble just before the turn in before hitting the turbo and went clear nicely.
 
Saw the race knowing the result. Winner impressive and the strong pace requirment put to bed. Cue Card though travelled so strongly at the bottom of the hill I thought the result might be wroog! Will they go back to the nouice route? it would make sense but he does not look too far out of his depth. Clerks Choice was another eyecatcher and should be aimed at the Champion Hurdle.
 
I wasn't in the Cue Card fan club but I thought he got taken by surprise when Menorah quickened.They are entitled to keep the Champion option open.
 
I think it suggests that Cue Card might just end up like most bumper horses - better over further. I think he got done for toe by Menorah but the Hobbs horse is just as likely to improve for a strongly run 2 mile event.
 
Just watched the race again, I don't think he needs further, he definitely needs a stronger gallop, and he needs to settle, he is way too free in the early stages of his race. Still only a novice though, a lot more to come from him.
 
I was very impressed by Menorah but have to confess I'm in the Peddlers Cross camp here. The form of his Cheltenham win in the Baring Bingham novice hurdle is working out very well.


« 1 Peddlers Cross (IRE)


« 2 1½ Reve De Sivola - won well Friday (Nov Chase)

« 3 3¾ Rite Of Passage 7/2F - won Ascot Gold Cup next race

« 4 ¾ Summit Meeting - 3rd FTO this season but had a fit Luska Lad & Blackstairsmountain well behind

« 5 ¾ Finian's Rainbow (IRE) won impressively in a Nov Chase

« 6 nk The Giant Bolster - was still challenging Time For Rupert despite blundering and hitting two fences before falling at the 12th

« 7 8 Manyriverstocross (IRE) 5L behind Menorah in the Greatwood receiving 13lb and 15L behind Peddlers Cross in this race off level weights - despite the different distances this suggests there's little between Peddlers Cross and Menorah

Menorah beat a couple of talking horses that had it to prove today and was entitled to win as he did and was impressive in doing so - although I do feel there's still improvement to come from the first 3 today.

I prefer the form of the Fighting Fifth as Starluck is a good yardstick especially early in the season - Binocular I have no doubt is being trained with the Champion Hurdle in mind.

Peddlers Cross - Binocular - Menorah are the first three in the Champion Hurdle in my mind at this moment in time - no doubt one or two challengers will appear from Ireland - Looks the race of the festival - can't wait.
 
Galileo said:
I think he got done for toe by Menorah but the Hobbs horse is just as likely to improve for a strongly run 2 mile event.
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I disagree. He may very well improve for it, but his turn of foot will always make him better equipped to deal with a tactical affair than the likes of Cue Card or Silviniaco Conti and I certainly would think they will both improve far more for a strongly-run race.

I was actually surprised to hear Philip Hobbs say after the race that he's always viewed Menorah as a stayer ~ he has always seemed, in spite of his pedigree, a seriously pacey horse to me with a potent turn of foot.

All in all, I just don't see how anyone can be dogmatic about the form of today's race. Despite it producing an impressive performance I thought it was a largely unsatisfactory race to be honest.
 
Had my x factor winnings at Dunguib at an average of 24-will be disappointed if I can't squeeze ten points of it.
 
LUKE said:
Had my x factor winnings at Dunguib at an average of 24-will be disappointed if I can't squeeze ten points of it.
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Rebecca should have won bye the way!!;) think you could squeeze that out of him alright - the other similar one has to be Go Native - anyone an update on him - will we see him af Christmas at Kempton or Leopardstown?? The way things are going are we going to see any of the main protagonists after Christmas and before March? This is getting beyond a joke!! Everything is being wrapped up in cotton wool!!
 
Rite of Passage was given a very poor ride in that race and I doubt it represents his true ability over hurdles but now he is a Group 1 stayer on the Flat we won't see him again over hurdles I understood.
 
davidjohnson said:
What's not completely straightforward about Menorah? Everybody was saying he needs a well run race despite the fact he'd already won a Supreme and a Greatwood when neither were run at a flat out gallop. He then does it off a slowish pace today.

My problem with Pedler's Cross' price is that his form as of yet isn't some 10/12lb shy of Champion Hurdle winning standard. Granted he's open to improvement but I just think he's too short. Menorah keeps getting the job done why others keep needing excuses made for them.
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So Menorah beats Bothy, Cue Card and Silviniaco Conti whilst Peddler's cross beats the champion hurdler and yet the latter is still well short.

Anyone who thinks Binocular was way below his best FTO is mistaken in my opinion. Henderson expected him to win - his pre-race interviews suggest that and he didn;t have any excuses on the day.

Personally I think PC and Menorah are both worthy of their positions in the market and should be similar prices. I will be backing Peddlers Cross though.

I should also add that didn't Menorah get an end to end gallop at Aintree last year and got beat by General Miller? I think he'll lack for stamina on the big day..
 
Aragorn, you are forgetting Starluck also beat Binocular - that horse is 15 pounds a worse horse.

Peddlers Cross should be 8s or more for me.
 
Hamm said:
Aragorn, you are forgetting Starluck also beat Binocular - that horse is 15 pounds a worse horse.

Peddlers Cross should be 8s or more for me.
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so using the thinking that B ran to his best..there are two better hurdlers than him..i can't see it either Hamm

I'll just throw in..FF winners don't win CH's :)
 
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