Road to the Gold Cup 2011

Does anyone thing that Paul Townend should have let Cooldine stride on in last years Gold Cup? I wouldn't back Cooldine in any race until they have gone at least half a mile.

JohnJ
 
Particularly seeing as he stays so well - yeah he should have JJ. Think Ruby riding him from the front in the Lexus debut backfired a bit for the rest of the season.
 
95% chance Diamond Harry will go straight to Gold Cup - definitely won't run in Lexus.
 
Last edited:
Simon said:
95% chance he'll go straight to Gold Cup - definitely won't run in Lexus.
Click to expand...

That Diamond Harry? So from the King George to the Gold Cup itself we will not see Denman, Kauto, Diamond Harry, Imperial Commander etc. A tad ridiculous.
 
Sorry, Galileo, yes it's Diamond Harry. I had posted a thread on FF under the name Diamond Harry and just copied my post across.

I think it's probably the right decision though, after-all Diamond Harry goes best when fresh.
 
Is Imperial Commander going straight to Cheltenham?

The AON is going to be a weak race this year.
 
I keep hearing the argument about how great NH racing is because you have the same horses year in year out. What good is this when they race 2/3 times a season (of which one is often a prep and they are nowhere near fully fit), with their entire 'season' built around one race.

I would prefer the campaigning of Dylan Thomas or Ouija Board any day.
 
swedish chef said:
It's only a personal opinion but I think the Hennessy will prove one hard race too many for Denman and fresh or not I think it will leave it's mark at his age.
Kauto to me has never been a Cheltenham horse but his brilliance was the deciding factor in his Gold Cups - I expect him to run very very well at Kempton as that tracks made for him but can't have him for Cheltenham.

I couldn't put anyone off Imperial Commander except for the stats on horses trying retain the the GC.

As always it will be a great race and questions will be answered but I'll be looking for a young improver to put my few sheckels on - Good Luck.
Click to expand...

Good luck to you also... After fighting his way back to full health while taking part in these sort of races, I’d be greatly surprised if this year’s Hennessy has finished him off now that he’s clearly back in roaring health.
 
Last edited:
SteveM said:
Good luck to you also... After fighting his way back to full health while taking part in these sort of races, I’d be greatly surprised if this year’s Hennessy has finished him off now that he’s clearly back in roaring health.
Click to expand...

They themselves must still have doubts about his robustness if they are aiming him straight at the Gold Cup.
 
Agree in some ways Hamm, but to some people its either "being kept fresh (as some kind of clever masterplan)" or "cant believe their not running him" depending on who the horse/trainer is, i sense

In fairness to Nichols, Kauto and Denman are the stage when they dont woe anybody anything, but at same time, when i think back to way desert orchid was campiagned..
 
Last edited:
Presuming Denman runs once more this season, he will have raced just 13 times in 4 seasons. Tank my backside. A waste of a horse imo.
 
Come off it Hamm

he was completely out of action for a good period of that

At least these horses are being run by enthusiasts who want to see the animals perform year after year, rather than personailty free accountants who can only think of the bottom line or spoilt billionaires who retire a top class animal at the first hint of any risk

It must have taken an enormous effort to get denamn back to where he was and i suspect less dedicated and talented teams would not have achieved what they have at ditchet
 
He was off for a few months, yes, but not 2 years.

He is the perfect example of a horse who could take a lot of runs, yet he is left in his box - why? No-one criticises Nicholls yet remember all the sniping at Knight? Bizarre.

Denman will probably have 2 runs this season, 3 at the absolute most. What is the point of it - it's probably his last season in and around the top yet they leave him in his box when he is most definitely not a horse who needs to be fresh to run well.
 
I think you should look at the way Nichols campaigned Kauto a couple of seasons back rather than basing it on judegment of a horse who was clearly very sick
 
That was one season, and then reverted to hardly running him.

Denman hasn't been sick for over 2 years now - what is the excuse for most probably having just 2 runs this season? I would challenge the term 'enthusiast' for someone who won't run his horse, and for no good reason.
 
He is clearly very well in himself now. Apart from anything else he looks so much better.

I'm surprised they appear not to want to be more aggressive with him this season, as they said they would be at the beginning of the season.

However, this says to me not that they doubt him but that they really fancy their chances of winning the Gold Cup back and don't want anything to jeopardise that.
 
Not disagreeing with you on that Steve, but my point is more related to NH at the moment, and the trend to give horses excessively light campaigns - that is fine, but having that and then hearing how great it is to see the horses all of the time is a bit strange.
 
Off the top of my head, the top 12 NH horses over the past 5 years are:

Kauto 25 runs in UK/Irl
Denman 22 runs
Imperial 18 runs
Moscow 44 runs
Azerty 21 runs in UK/Irl
Well Chief 25 runs
Big Buck's 16 runs in UK/Irl
Brave Inca 35 runs
Rooster Booster 46 runs
Baracouda 20 runs in UK/Irl

I may have left out a few obvious ones. Compare number of runs to the best on the Flat. Because that is what you are comparing, right?
 
Last edited:
I tend to agree but would steer clear of pointing the finger at connections of Kauto (who has run 25 times over jumps now...which is a fair number) and Denman, who has had enough problems. However it is a trend with many trainers now and the obsession witn those days in March is getting worse
 
Bar the Bull said:
Off the top of my head, the top 12 NH horses over the past 5 years are:

Kauto 25 runs in UK/Irl
Denman 22 runs
Imperial 18 runs
Moscow 44 runs
Azerty 21 runs in UK/Irl
Well Chief 25 runs
Big Buck's 16 runs in UK/Irl
Brave Inca 35 runs
Rooster Booster 46 runs
Baracouda 20 runs in UK/Irl

I may have left out a few obvious ones. Compare number of runs to the best on the Flat. Because that is what you are comparing, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, but it's not a direct comparison - my point being hard to statistically validate, in that in how many of those runs listed above were the horses running at 100% fitness and the race not a prep? Take Dylan Thomas, Duke of M, Rip last season, Ouija Board, Daylami, Falbrav etc etc - when they ran, maybe excusing 1 run at the start of the season, they were at their maximum level in every race, and didn't have their entire season built around 1 or maybe 2 races.

It's all well and good having Kauto and Denman around for a few years, but what good is it if they only race at 100% a maximum of twice a season?
 
Hamm said:
Not disagreeing with you on that Steve, but my point is more related to NH at the moment, and the trend to give horses excessively light campaigns - that is fine, but having that and then hearing how great it is to see the horses all of the time is a bit strange.
Click to expand...

Yes (I was really replying to Gal above) I agree it is a bit strange.

Best Mate was a prime example. Criticised for being wrapped in cotton wool, but won three Gold Cups... depends on your expectations and view on what you want.
 
My criticism of the campaign Best Mate had was down to the fact there was nothing to suggest that the horse needed to be fresh – in that instance I can understand why Imperial Commander is being lightly raced as it is blatantly clear that the horse does not run well without a break. But the Best Mate situation was just the trainer’s weakness, not the horse’s.
 
Back
Top