Road to the Gold Cup 2011

G-G said:
Euronymous said:
The days of Kauto vs Denman have gone, they both need to be appreciated for the legends they are.

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Totally agree. I think Denman could go on but really think Kauto has nothing left to prove and what's the point of running him any more to be beaten?
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What would be the point in retiring him only to find that (hopefully not) Long Run misses the King George come December through injury (or the trainer doping him)?

I would be tempted to run him in the Betfred and have one more tilt at the King George. Would probably start him off in an earlier race than the JN Chase to give him a bit more time before the King George.
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I thought Kautos run was encouraging for the near future if anything. You can tell when a horse has had enough, and cant see it here

Flat racing is for the "nothing left to prove" mob (usually after 4 races or something too). jump racing is a sport

Also FU point is right. Theres still a good gap back to the also rans.
 
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yes and have to remeber that this is a Tingle creek winner. hes won the GC distance but its probably not ideal.
 
clivex said:
yes and have to remeber that this is a Tingle creek winner. hes won the GC distance but its probably not ideal.
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It was notable that like 2008 he got tired from the second last - unlike 2008 though, Kauto was travelling and jumping well this time round . Last year the slowish early pace did not suit him and led him to make that juddering mistake which is no doubt why they rode him more prominently and he went on when Ruby thought Midnight Chase was not going quick enough.

He remains the best chaser I have ever seen ( sorry Dessie )
 
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clivex said:
I thought Kautos run was encouraging for the near future if anything. You can tell when a horse has had enough, and cant see it here

Flat racing is for the "nothing left to prove" mob (usually after 4 races or something too). jump racing is a sport

Also FU point is right. Theres still a good gap back to the also rans.
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Entirely agree with this. If I had a horse that was capable of winning a Grade 1 race, finishing 3rd in a King George (despite subsequently being found to be suffering from an infection), and then finishing 3rd in the Gold Cup, he'd be staying in training for sure. (With the proviso he was still enjoying his racing, of course.)

KS won £50,000 for finishing 3rd. He races with plenty of zest. Take Long Run out and Nicholls's old warriors would have finished 1st and 2nd. Just because one outstanding 6yo has improved past them doesn't mean they should be retired....
 
BennyB said:
Entirely agree with this. If I had a horse that was capable of winning a Grade 1 race, finishing 3rd in a King George (despite subsequently being found to be suffering from an infection), and then finishing 3rd in the Gold Cup, he'd be staying in training for sure. (With the proviso he was still enjoying his racing, of course.)

KS won £50,000 for finishing 3rd. He races with plenty of zest. Take Long Run out and Nicholls's old warriors would have finished 1st and 2nd. Just because one outstanding 6yo has improved past them doesn't mean they should be retired....
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Exactly - if you take Long Run out of the race, you're looking at the two of them finishing first and second in a Gold Cup ahead of a very decent 8yo in What a Friend. There will be plenty of Grade 1 opportunities for KS and Denman where they won't be facing each other or Long Run - judging by the way they ran there's still plenty of enthusiasm combined with ability.

I should also add that IMO Kauto is currently capable of a better effort than he showed last week - he was in front an awful long way out, and this isn't something that would have played to his strengths - his best performances have typically been when stalking the leaders. Not enough of a difference to put him upsides Long Run, but enough to put him in contention with Denman (and possibly ahead of him anywhere else but Cheltenham).
 
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I'd still like to see him in the Whitbread/Befred/Bet365/whatever they call it nowadays. He loves Sandown, I think he'll get the trip, and the race hasn't exactly been that competitive recently. Should get decent ground too.
 
I think the gaps between the three of them are too wide on that performance . The official winning margin is bizarrre when you watch the video - also he seemed very much to outstay them , well certainly Kauto .

If it is 1lb ratings - 16lb better than Kauto strikes me as well over the top .

I agree with Flagship Uberalles had anything given Kauto a proper lead on the second circuit he might well have got closer.
 
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Kauto Star's mark in the Whitbread is 174. He beat What A Friend by a short head. What price would What A Friend be in that race off 174. Was a great effort from Kauto for various reasons but confirms that he will struggle to win another Grade 1 where Long Run et al turn up. Can see the temptation of Punchestown but bringing him back in the autumn is futile I think.
 
I don't think he should go anywhere near Sandown not due to his rating but the trip and likely ground. Punchestown should be a penalty kick if he is in Friday's form.

I disagree about the autumn. As said above take out Long Run and if he is still in the form he was on Friday he would go pretty close to KG No 5
 
Bar the Bull said:
http://www.sportinglife.com/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/11/03/21/manual_130041.html

Timeform rate Long Run at 184. Ths joint 7th best chaser since they began. Better than Denman in his prime. The same as Kauto Star in 2007.
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A touch of the Kicking King's about this one.

I don't want to crab the form too much, but Long Run has beaten a pair of (admittedly really good) 11yo's who are no longer the forces of old. He's also beaten a horse who could have been confidently rated at 160 maximum in each of his last half-dozen outings.

I don't buy the theory that blinkers have wrought almost a stone of improvement from What A Friend, and reckon Long Run's performance is much nearer 174 (still top-class) than 184. In fact, I reckon he's probably run to within a couple of lbs of his (my) King George mark.
 
Grasshopper said:
A touch of the Kicking King's about this one.

I don't want to crab the form too much, but Long Run has beaten a pair of (admittedly really good) 11yo's who are no longer the forces of old. He's also beaten a horse who could have been confidently rated at 160 maximum in each of his last half-dozen outings.

I don't buy the theory that blinkers have wrought almost a stone of improvement from What A Friend, and reckon Long Run's performance is much nearer 174 (still top-class) than 184. In fact, I reckon he's probably run to within a couple of lbs of his (my) King George mark.
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Kicking King beat a very poor field to be fair to Long Run .
 
Bar the Bull said:
http://www.sportinglife.com/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/11/03/21/manual_130041.html

Timeform rate Long Run at 184. Ths joint 7th best chaser since they began. Better than Denman in his prime. The same as Kauto Star in 2007.
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Although Long Run's Official Rating is on 179 and his RPR 183. Against Denman's best OR of 182 and RPR of 184.

As suny says, I would doubt that Long Run has run better than Denman in his prime, i.e. his Gold Cup or second Hennessy,for example.
 
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