Rotherham

EC1

EC1

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I've been listening to Radio Sheffield for the last couple of mornings where Toby Foster their excellent presenter has been trying to get to the bottom of this situation..i know a few of you are from Sheffield area..have you been listening?

What has been happening there is probably just the tip of the ice burg..how many other towns have this going on?

Why is there a culture of silence/protection by people/councillors who have turned a blind eye..a number of them attended a seminar about this problem not long ago...no one wants to name any of them..Toby has asked them to ring the station and explain why they ignored what was happening.

How on earth has this been allowed to happen?...and how come it seems that no one is to blame.."we must make sure it never happens in future"...is best you get

Leader of the council were on yesterday saying that people involved have moved on..like thats some sort of get out of jail free card for being sh*t at their previous job.

South Yorkshire police seemed to have lots of resources to chase after a high profile pop singer..but have a problem 1000 times worse happening in one of their own towns...and have ignored it..whats going off there then?..something seriously wrong obviously.

Like i said..Radio Sheffield are really going to town on this...but not getting any answers.

I don't particularly have much interest in who gets in power at the general election..but imo Labour have no chance of winning the next one..just based on what's happened here
 
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We know precisely why it was allowed to happen. Just as it was in many other northern cities

It is there in the report. Mustn't upset "community cohesion" or some such. Mustn't accuse Muslims of anything at all because that would be "racist"

It's disgusting. Those responsible should be fired immediately, prosecuted if at all possible and stripped of their fat public sector pensions
 
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Heard The Times investigative reporter talking about it on Jeremy Vine yesterday
Some of the facts he was saying about the case just beggared belief

There was a similar case up here about 4 years ago but to the best of my knowledge when the police got involved it was dealt with properly and the offender was put away for a good while.
 
It is utterly disgusting.

The equation that Rotherham Council appear to have applied is that child-rape on an industrial scale is acceptable, as long as community cohesion is not upset.

There should be prosecutions across the board, and every Police Force in the country should be compelled to re-open every single file they have parked, that remotely sniffs of something similar.
 
Yes..that was first reaction I had Clive..scared of the PC brigade.

This in itself is scarey if its the real reason..basically they seem to have different laws for different cultures then.

Do you think this is just northern towns?..i don't.
 
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I shouldnt have phrased it that way.it also happened in oxford and you can guarantee some labour councils in london could not be trusted on this. Fact is that most labour councils are in the north

and they wonder why white working class vote ukip or even bnp

the fawning over certain minorities (not all thats for sure) and contempt for white underclass is a big big feature of the modern left
 
Read denis mcshanes comment . Read up on that bitch joyce thacker. Read her actions against ukip members

Of course jimmy saville and so on will be mentioned but this is a case wherr political beliefs and bigotry let rapists off the hook
 
I have no time for ukip at all but was it coincidence that they did spectacularly well in the Rotherham by election a few weeks back? No one seemed to know why at the time. The voters did

I wonder if the Tory party will use this in the coming election. I believe they should and hammer the "guardian reading left" as Denis mcshane described them

The voters need to be reminded that vast swathes of the Labour Party do not and never will represent you

I wonder if Rotherham would have investigated a Jewish gang raping black kids?
 
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Not "my lot" and I have no idea what this has to do with the above

What is clear is that this is political dynamite is used correctly (and with that Aussie or guy that could be on the cards)

The other dose of it is that if the Tories don't play the "labour puts sensitivities of Muslims above the rape of 1400 children card" then ukip will

That's the politics. There should be no let up at the anger of those responsible here
 
clivex said:
We know precisely why it was allowed to happen. Just as it was in many other northern cities

It is there in the report. Mustn't upset "community cohesion" or some such. Mustn't accuse Muslims of anything at all because that would be "racist"

It's disgusting. Those responsible should be fired immediately, prosecuted if at all possible and stripped of their fat public sector pensions
Click to expand...

Much as though it pains me greatly to have to admit it, there is more than just a grain of truth in Clive's sweeping generalisation

On a practical level however, it's very difficult for an officer to report anything. There is a procedure that you have to go through anyway for it to even be considered. The bigger issue though is that you're very rarely in possession of enough evidence to make an allegation stick. What you normally have is heresay and what I might describe as 'bits and pieces' of a jigsaw that don't look right. There are some quite powerful people involved too (surprisingly so)

I think some of it hinges on the inherrant weakness of local democratic structures though. In a local authority the councillors are usually king. They hire and fire chief executives and senior officers, and will then make political appointments in their own image (not dissimilar to the civil service albeit they have greater safeguards). Perhaps the better paralell would be qangos

The problem you have in a lot of cases is the fragility of the majorities that these councillors hold, and the fact that they're drawn from the local community themselves and are particularly vulnerable to coercion.

Branch (ward) labour parties will normally have in the region of no more than 50-100 members, of whom half are disqualified for standing for having an employment clash of interest, and the other half can't be arsed to turn up for a meeting anyway. Anyone putting themselves forward who can promise an additional 500 votes from any nominated community can probably win a seat such is the antipathy amongst the electorate. Jack Straw once referred to it as 'Asian entrism' and had to back down, but you only need to look at membership statistics in certain mill towns of that time to see that the spirit of Leon Trotsky was alive and well, even if the politics coming to the table on the back of the tactic weren't the same.

Perhaps the case should apply at local level that everyone is forced by legislation to vote? It would certainly make a local authority that little bit less paranoid
 
Grasshopper said:
It is utterly disgusting.

The equation that Rotherham Council appear to have applied is that child-rape on an industrial scale is acceptable, as long as community cohesion is not upset.

There should be prosecutions across the board, and every Police Force in the country should be compelled to re-open every single file they have parked, that remotely sniffs of something similar.
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I totally agree with you

Ironically I did an interview at Rotherham about 10 years ago where we had to give a presentation on the subject of "Every Child Matters" (a government policy paper of the day)

It isn't good enough to say sorry I'll resign. This is culpability in criminality pure and simple. And whilst we're at it, isn't about time the state started to hunt down the biggest and most organised systematic abuser of children?
 
EC1 said:
Yes..that was first reaction I had Clive..scared of the PC brigade.

This in itself is scarey if its the real reason..basically they seem to have different laws for different cultures then.

Do you think this is just northern towns?..i don't.
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I think that's a slight misread EC

In the first case the people who are sweeping this under the carpet aren't so much scarred of the PC Brigade, but are the PC Brigade. The cultures they seek to appease aren't quite so much for culturally sensitivities, but electoral arithemitic. In that regard the fate of the people in position to regulate these things in chronically inter woven with that of the voters on who they depend (especially so in local elections where turnout is in the region of 30%)

Let me give you an example. In a general election where turn out if 70%+ Tony Blair was quite happy to go to war, and continues to defend his decision to do so, against a tide that could easily have been characterised by its ethnicity. Would he have been so quick to do so if turnout was 30% and half of them were from an ethnic minority who he could probably be accussed of having attacked in the cut and thrust of an election campaign

I used to work for an authority with a large ethnic minority population that was politically active and where the allegation of similar were never far away (including a high profile current MP). Did I have evidence to present? No. Just a reoccuring theme, same stories, same names, same locations, heard second and third hand. Not enough to present anything on

I was fond of saying "they'd rather do the wrong thing, for the right reason, than do the right thing". It still pervades in their adminsitrative culture today
 
Long post wasted warbler

rotherham boroughs muslim population is 8000 . Out of near 250000

Thats about 3%

It was left wing bigotry. No more. No less
 
In the context of Rotherham it would appear so, but the same tension applies elsewhere, seen it too many times.

The bottom line however is that it remains very difficult for the middle ranking officer who has suspicions and concerns to report anything. The first thing they're always asked for is evidence, and a single person at this level rarely has the smoking gun. The best they'll have is anecdotes and heresay, albeit the frequency with which you keep coming across the same names does tend to lead you into believing the smoke without fire analogy
 
Warbler said:
The bottom line however is that it remains very difficult for the middle ranking officer who has suspicions and concerns to report anything. The first thing they're always asked for is evidence, and a single person at this level rarely has the smoking gun. The best they'll have is anecdotes and heresy.....
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I can't agree. A report of such an egregious nature needs following-up - regardless of whether there is sufficient evidence to support a prosecution or not.

Police officers of all ranks, are there to serve justice, and nothing else. It is wholly unacceptable for them to arbitrarily put that to one side, for the sake of a nebulous concept like "community cohesion".

The fact that Dibble appeared to do nothing whatsoever on the back of these reports - and that they may have been encouraged to do nothing by elected representatives on the council - is nothing short of scandalous, and demands a full public enquiry.....and a long list of prosecutions, of those found derelict in their duty. This would hopefully ensure that such laissez-faire disregard for the law, and the policing of that law, never happens again.
 
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Grasshopper said:
The fact that Dibble appeared to do nothing whatsoever on the back of these reports
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and yet couldn't get round to Cliff's quick enough..1400 cases..no action..1 case..all guns blazing.

south yorkshire police are disgusting imo..and they should be being investigated themselves
 
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And the bitch couldnt wait to tear two foster kids away from parents who voted ukip and were thus declared by her to be racist

quickly and rightly reversed but masses of time wasted. A truly disgusting action in isolation but in the context of the above ... you have to feel complete hatred towards her and her department
 
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Grasshopper said:
I can't agree. A report of such an egregious nature needs following-up - regardless of whether there is sufficient evidence to support a prosecution or not.
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It's rarely that straight-forward

You're dealing with political environments with no small amount of subtefuge, conspiracy and rumour flying around all the time. Some of it's malicious, some of it's deliberately designed to mislead. It's rare that someone is in possession of a complete picture so what are you actually reporting? It begs the question of how many times you have to keep hearing something in terms of the same name, or variants on the same story, before you report something. That's before you start to look at the issue of what you're reporting being easily denied and you don't actually have any evidence

To be honest, if I'd reported everything to the beak I heard, I'd likely end up being prosecuted for wasting police time. Having said that, I can think of one high profile name that kept coming back time and time again but then thousands must have known this given the frequency with which you'd hear it.

If you lob the following into google you'll quickly discover want a minefield this is

try putting "Is (politicians name)" and whoever you choose the chances the predictive has gone into the words 'gay' or similar in terms of sexual miscreant. You'll find that most have got stuff written about them somewhere. To some extent that encapsulates it. Why don't any of you report an MP who you keep reading about?
 
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That is complete cobblers.

The police should be 100% immune from political interference. The fact that they appear to have capitulated to the whims of their local councillors is what makes them negligent, rather than excusing them for not investigating.
 
What you think should be the case and what is the case are very different. The polcie are more politicised today since the introduction of elected police commissioners than ever

As I said, if you feel that strongly about it, try reporting a high profile and influential person. It won't be difficult for you. The internet is clogged up with lurid half stories and accounts that you can't personally nail with any evidence, but which we've heard enough times now to start to have our doubts maybe. See what happens to your report? More to the point, by the time you're making your 10th allegation against someone, see what happens to you
 
This is awful warbler

It's not what grasshopper thinks it is precisely what everyone in this country expects it to be. No more no less

1400 cases warbler. There is no excuse under any circumstances. These are not lurid Internet stories. They are bloody facts

And again it is blown apart by the fact that a highly thought of influential celebrity who is no doubt very well connected was raided on the abolsute flimsiest of evidence. Just a couple of weeks ago
 
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