Very good post, agree with every word.
RUK/McCoy
- Thread starter Guest_
- Start date
Very good post, agree with every word.
PlaceBacker
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2003
- Messages
- 2,745
Woulndt be to face as Ap refuses to talk to her
J Alfred Prufrock
At the Start
Geoff Lester (mis)used his position as HWPA President at The Derby Awards in 2005 to make a gratuitous criticism of Lydia Hislop's enquiring style, before pathetically trying to pretend he was just making a joke.
Geoff Lester, Lydia Hislop: the choice is yours.
Geoff Lester, Lydia Hislop: the choice is yours.
endevour269
At the Start
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2009
- Messages
- 137
Nothing wrong with Lydia first class presenter and journalist.
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
:blink: :lol::lol::lol:
PRICEWISE2008
At the Start
Who told you Luke:lol::lol:
She generally makes a couple of outstanding points, keeps well abreast of the news, and isn't concerned about making bosom buddies. Unlike some, who make complete tits of themselves.
(Have we done yet? The poor woman deliberately dressed down to avoid this sort of nonsense, I understand.)
(Have we done yet? The poor woman deliberately dressed down to avoid this sort of nonsense, I understand.)
rorydelargy
At the Start
Official response from AP:
"Our sport is very lucky to have two dedicated horse racing channels with some excellent presenters on both channels. However, not that it is of much interest to some of you but the only reason that I will be no longer talking with Racing UK channel is not for any reasons like I am sulking for being criticised, that has never bothered me as I am my own biggest critique and always welcome criticism. It was the accusations made by two of their tv presenters who in my opinion were very persistent in insinuating I was allegedly cheating on ‘Get Me Out Of Here’. I have no problem being challenged but it was the nature in which they challenged and the impression they left in the viewers minds that I allegedly tried to stop this horse. The presenters in questions should have considered that me as a jockey in this incident was looking after the BEST INTEREST and WELFARE of a very good horse who under performed on that day and has since under performed again, we are still trying to work out with myself, Johnjo and the Vets at Jackdaws the reasons as to why the horse hasn’t been anywhere near his best. The WELFARE of our horses will always come first before us or anyone else. As I said to an interviewer yesterday from the Racing Post, on my 3 year old daughter’s life I did not stop that horse. It is the most insulting and detrimental alleged accusation that can be made towards a jockey and I have taken this incident very much to heart and I am hugely insulted that this insinuation could be made towards me when all I was doing was looking after the WELFARE of this horse. More importantly let’s hope ‘Get Me Out Of Here’ gets back to his best."
"Our sport is very lucky to have two dedicated horse racing channels with some excellent presenters on both channels. However, not that it is of much interest to some of you but the only reason that I will be no longer talking with Racing UK channel is not for any reasons like I am sulking for being criticised, that has never bothered me as I am my own biggest critique and always welcome criticism. It was the accusations made by two of their tv presenters who in my opinion were very persistent in insinuating I was allegedly cheating on ‘Get Me Out Of Here’. I have no problem being challenged but it was the nature in which they challenged and the impression they left in the viewers minds that I allegedly tried to stop this horse. The presenters in questions should have considered that me as a jockey in this incident was looking after the BEST INTEREST and WELFARE of a very good horse who under performed on that day and has since under performed again, we are still trying to work out with myself, Johnjo and the Vets at Jackdaws the reasons as to why the horse hasn’t been anywhere near his best. The WELFARE of our horses will always come first before us or anyone else. As I said to an interviewer yesterday from the Racing Post, on my 3 year old daughter’s life I did not stop that horse. It is the most insulting and detrimental alleged accusation that can be made towards a jockey and I have taken this incident very much to heart and I am hugely insulted that this insinuation could be made towards me when all I was doing was looking after the WELFARE of this horse. More importantly let’s hope ‘Get Me Out Of Here’ gets back to his best."
On The Bridle
At the Start
Fair enough - case closed! Next case please....
rorydelargy
At the Start
Am I the only one perturbed that AP can't spell Jonjo?
J Alfred Prufrock
At the Start
If nothing else, he has made it very clear that he should leave the wordsmithery to others, including Lydia.
I did a quick Google of "swearing on a person's life" and came up with several answers which suggested that this quaint phrase signifies an attempt to settle an argument through moral blackmail. Bringing a minor into it, as McCoy has done, should be beneath him.
I have never met McCoy but have long admired his dedication, professionalism and sheer talent. His behaviour at Ludlow (by all accounts) and since is that of a bully. I very much hope he snaps out of it quickly.
I did a quick Google of "swearing on a person's life" and came up with several answers which suggested that this quaint phrase signifies an attempt to settle an argument through moral blackmail. Bringing a minor into it, as McCoy has done, should be beneath him.
I have never met McCoy but have long admired his dedication, professionalism and sheer talent. His behaviour at Ludlow (by all accounts) and since is that of a bully. I very much hope he snaps out of it quickly.
As good an article as I've read in some time. Well said Chris Cook.
Tony McCoy has over-reacted in Get Me Out Of Here row with Racing UK
Multiple champion jockey should acknowledge that TV presenters did not accuse him of stopping horse
Comments on Tony McCoy's ride on Get Me Out Of Here, left, at Ascot has resulted in the rider boycotting TV channel Racing UK. Photograph: Alan Crowhurst/Getty Images When Tony McCoy, champion jumps jockey for the past 15 years, speaks out in anger in the weighing room, how many voices are raised in dissent against him, do you imagine? None, I would guess, especially when the topic is one on which all other jockeys share his perspective, like the extent to which it is fair for pundits to criticise them on television.
"I am my own biggest critic," wrote McCoy in a blogpost earlier this week but that is probably no longer true in the light of his new refusal to be interviewed on Racing UK, which he justifies by reference to comments made by two of that channel's presenters.
The issue began at the end of October, when McCoy rode Get Me Out Of Here at Ascot. On his previous start, the horse had been an excellent, unlucky second behind Menorah at the Cheltenham Festival in March and he was joint-favourite for this reappearance but finished a disappointing seventh.
The Racing Post's analyst said the horse "should have been perfectly capable of winning off this mark, but he never got close to the leaders, McCoy very much looking after the six-year-old with an eye to the future. He'll no doubt leave this form behind."
Writing in the Raceform Update, Simon Holt went further. The rider, he said, "sat very quietly throughout the race before allowing the horse to come home in his own time. Indeed, it is difficult to remember when McCoy, a jockey who can motivate horses like no other, looked less animated."
Holt called attention to the report in the following day's Post, when McCoy was quoted as saying: "There's no point in giving a horse a hard race at this stage of the season." Holt added: "While one can perfectly understand why Get Me Out Of Here (who will have bigger fish to fry in future months) was given an easy time, it must be galling for those punters who took 5-2 about the horse winning at Ascot to have to listen to McCoy post-race."
If McCoy has any issue with either Holt or the Post's analyst, he has not made it public. He will not, it seems, be boycotting Channel 4, for which Holt works as a commentator. He has, however, expressed righteous indignation about comments on RUK that seem, on the face of it, somewhat milder than Holt's.
A pundit on RUK described Get Me Out Of Here as not having "his game hat on" in the Ascot race, to which Lydia Hislop, the presenter, responded: "I don't think he was asked to have his game hat on from the home turn." While happy to accept that the horse had pulled hard for his head early in the race, she added: "I just don't think he was persisted with in a way you would expect any horse, let alone a horse on whom so many eyes would have been on that day."
Days later, when the horse was about to have its next run, RUK's Steve Mellish offered his view. "I think the Ascot stewards were really remiss in not asking for an official explanation of the ride," he said. Having noted that the horse was keen over the first two hurdles, he said: "there was absolutely no discernable effort after that."
Mellish continued: "Tony McCoy is reported to have said that when he squeezed it, there was nothing there. That's the sort of thing that an official explanation should be shown, so that we have got it on record ... Also, we didn't see the squeezing, the whip was never picked up ... I suspect that, if it hadn't been Tony McCoy, if it had been a smaller jockey, a less famous jockey, I think the question may well have been asked."
Hislop and Mellish made it clear, as others had done before them, that they felt McCoy had been surprisingly lenient on his mount. It is hard to disagree. On any view, McCoy gave the horse a considerate ride that was quite different to the demanding, all-action, push-and-shove-and-kick efforts for which he is justly famous.
Yet McCoy's response to Hislop and Mellish was furious. In his opinion, they "were very persistent in insinuating I was allegedly cheating on Get Me Out Of Here. I have no problem being challenged but it was the nature in which they challenged and the impression they left in the viewers' minds that I allegedly tried to stop this horse."
He had been looking after the welfare of a good horse who underperformed that day, he wrote. "On my three-year-old daughter's life, I did not stop that horse. It is the most insulting and detrimental alleged accusation that can be made towards a jockey and I have taken this incident very much to heart."
Anyone can understand why a jockey would wish to protect his reputation and would be sensitive to any suggestion that he could have done better on a particular horse. McCoy may also have had in mind that he is favourite for the BBC's Sports Personality of the Year award, which will go to a public vote later this month. He was bound to be upset by what Hislop and Mellish said.
But his best friend should tell him that he has wildly over-reacted. The broadcasters' comments fall a long way short of accusing him of any kind of corruption. To say that the stewards should have asked questions is not to say that there could have been no satisfactory answers.
To say that McCoy's ride was uncharacteristic is merely to acknowledge a fact that must strike anyone watching a video of the race. Yet nobody has said that McCoy was cheating and I do not believe that either presenter has even thought such a thing.
In questioning what had happened, they were simply doing their job, representing the interests of the sport's fans, followers and punters. Many of them, it seems, felt the issue warranted a discussion.
"We had a number of complaints," a spokesman for the British Horseracing Authority told me, "and, in hindsight, it clearly would have been preferable had the stewards sought an explanation, although that is not to say that a breach of the rules took place."
McCoy, widely acknowledged as the best jump jockey there has ever been, has another issue to consider: his responsibility to the sport. There can be no more influential figure in the weighing room. Any young jockey surely looks to him for an example of how to behave.
To that rider, the appropriate response to criticism is now clear. If you don't like what has been said, simply refuse to speak to that person ever again.
It is a dismal precedent that can only serve to widen the gap between racing's professionals and the wider public. Please let there be a cheerful, respected voice in the weighing room, telling the champion in a quiet moment that enough is enough, everyone's point has been made and it is now time to be friends again.
Tony McCoy has over-reacted in Get Me Out Of Here row with Racing UK
Multiple champion jockey should acknowledge that TV presenters did not accuse him of stopping horse
Comments on Tony McCoy's ride on Get Me Out Of Here, left, at Ascot has resulted in the rider boycotting TV channel Racing UK. Photograph: Alan Crowhurst/Getty Images When Tony McCoy, champion jumps jockey for the past 15 years, speaks out in anger in the weighing room, how many voices are raised in dissent against him, do you imagine? None, I would guess, especially when the topic is one on which all other jockeys share his perspective, like the extent to which it is fair for pundits to criticise them on television.
"I am my own biggest critic," wrote McCoy in a blogpost earlier this week but that is probably no longer true in the light of his new refusal to be interviewed on Racing UK, which he justifies by reference to comments made by two of that channel's presenters.
The issue began at the end of October, when McCoy rode Get Me Out Of Here at Ascot. On his previous start, the horse had been an excellent, unlucky second behind Menorah at the Cheltenham Festival in March and he was joint-favourite for this reappearance but finished a disappointing seventh.
The Racing Post's analyst said the horse "should have been perfectly capable of winning off this mark, but he never got close to the leaders, McCoy very much looking after the six-year-old with an eye to the future. He'll no doubt leave this form behind."
Writing in the Raceform Update, Simon Holt went further. The rider, he said, "sat very quietly throughout the race before allowing the horse to come home in his own time. Indeed, it is difficult to remember when McCoy, a jockey who can motivate horses like no other, looked less animated."
Holt called attention to the report in the following day's Post, when McCoy was quoted as saying: "There's no point in giving a horse a hard race at this stage of the season." Holt added: "While one can perfectly understand why Get Me Out Of Here (who will have bigger fish to fry in future months) was given an easy time, it must be galling for those punters who took 5-2 about the horse winning at Ascot to have to listen to McCoy post-race."
If McCoy has any issue with either Holt or the Post's analyst, he has not made it public. He will not, it seems, be boycotting Channel 4, for which Holt works as a commentator. He has, however, expressed righteous indignation about comments on RUK that seem, on the face of it, somewhat milder than Holt's.
A pundit on RUK described Get Me Out Of Here as not having "his game hat on" in the Ascot race, to which Lydia Hislop, the presenter, responded: "I don't think he was asked to have his game hat on from the home turn." While happy to accept that the horse had pulled hard for his head early in the race, she added: "I just don't think he was persisted with in a way you would expect any horse, let alone a horse on whom so many eyes would have been on that day."
Days later, when the horse was about to have its next run, RUK's Steve Mellish offered his view. "I think the Ascot stewards were really remiss in not asking for an official explanation of the ride," he said. Having noted that the horse was keen over the first two hurdles, he said: "there was absolutely no discernable effort after that."
Mellish continued: "Tony McCoy is reported to have said that when he squeezed it, there was nothing there. That's the sort of thing that an official explanation should be shown, so that we have got it on record ... Also, we didn't see the squeezing, the whip was never picked up ... I suspect that, if it hadn't been Tony McCoy, if it had been a smaller jockey, a less famous jockey, I think the question may well have been asked."
Hislop and Mellish made it clear, as others had done before them, that they felt McCoy had been surprisingly lenient on his mount. It is hard to disagree. On any view, McCoy gave the horse a considerate ride that was quite different to the demanding, all-action, push-and-shove-and-kick efforts for which he is justly famous.
Yet McCoy's response to Hislop and Mellish was furious. In his opinion, they "were very persistent in insinuating I was allegedly cheating on Get Me Out Of Here. I have no problem being challenged but it was the nature in which they challenged and the impression they left in the viewers' minds that I allegedly tried to stop this horse."
He had been looking after the welfare of a good horse who underperformed that day, he wrote. "On my three-year-old daughter's life, I did not stop that horse. It is the most insulting and detrimental alleged accusation that can be made towards a jockey and I have taken this incident very much to heart."
Anyone can understand why a jockey would wish to protect his reputation and would be sensitive to any suggestion that he could have done better on a particular horse. McCoy may also have had in mind that he is favourite for the BBC's Sports Personality of the Year award, which will go to a public vote later this month. He was bound to be upset by what Hislop and Mellish said.
But his best friend should tell him that he has wildly over-reacted. The broadcasters' comments fall a long way short of accusing him of any kind of corruption. To say that the stewards should have asked questions is not to say that there could have been no satisfactory answers.
To say that McCoy's ride was uncharacteristic is merely to acknowledge a fact that must strike anyone watching a video of the race. Yet nobody has said that McCoy was cheating and I do not believe that either presenter has even thought such a thing.
In questioning what had happened, they were simply doing their job, representing the interests of the sport's fans, followers and punters. Many of them, it seems, felt the issue warranted a discussion.
"We had a number of complaints," a spokesman for the British Horseracing Authority told me, "and, in hindsight, it clearly would have been preferable had the stewards sought an explanation, although that is not to say that a breach of the rules took place."
McCoy, widely acknowledged as the best jump jockey there has ever been, has another issue to consider: his responsibility to the sport. There can be no more influential figure in the weighing room. Any young jockey surely looks to him for an example of how to behave.
To that rider, the appropriate response to criticism is now clear. If you don't like what has been said, simply refuse to speak to that person ever again.
It is a dismal precedent that can only serve to widen the gap between racing's professionals and the wider public. Please let there be a cheerful, respected voice in the weighing room, telling the champion in a quiet moment that enough is enough, everyone's point has been made and it is now time to be friends again.
Last edited:
rorydelargy
At the Start
Cook's article is excellent, not because it's a brave or brilliant piece of writing, but simply because it produces the actual facts of the case. Why can't we always have this - it's taken forever to find out what Lydia Hislop said which angered McCoy so much.
On a footnote, Steve Mellish could very nearly sue - he has (unsurprisingly) said nothing even vaguely malicious.
On a footnote, Steve Mellish could very nearly sue - he has (unsurprisingly) said nothing even vaguely malicious.
He said such criticisms can 'fan the flames of losing punters and create a suspicion of corruption', and that in other sports criticisms can be made 'without any inference of dishonesty'. He also goes on to mention Robert Thornton's comment that chatline reactions included jockeys being called crooks. I seem to remember that in the past Alan Lee has criticised internet forums however he never mentions the more sensible discussions (such as those that appear on here of course). He also states that 'modern media platforms encourage such cheap shots' and that 'journalists need to be sure of every fact before implying that a jockey might have been doing less than his best'. It's pretty similar to what he said on ATR on Sunday(?). The overall tone is one that suggests the criticism of McCoy is unjustified and should not have been made although I wouldn't expect anything else from Alan Lee which is why it's refreshing to see articles like the one above.
Anyway after ratching around for that you've also just made me realise that my paper recycling bin really needs a clean.....
Anyway after ratching around for that you've also just made me realise that my paper recycling bin really needs a clean.....