Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
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- 25,625
Sandown park Sat April 23rd 2016
- Thread starter Diamond Geezer
- Start date
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 13,884
From RP
THE BHA on Sunday came out in support of the Sandown stewards over the decision to fine trainer Willie Mullins £1,000 for the late withdrawal of Vroum Vroum Mag on Saturday.
The Cheltenham Festival-winning mare was withdrawn only nine minutes before she was due to contest the Listed Select Hurdle after any mathematical chance of Mullins winning his first British jump trainers’ title had gone.
The stewards’ report described the trainer as showing “a wilful disregard for the interests of racegoers and punters”, a comment Mullins disagreed with and branded “very harsh”.
Robin Mounsey, spokesman for the BHA, said on Sunday: “We support the decision of the stewards. In our view the specific set of circumstances which occurred were not satisfactory and the penalty was warranted.”
The BHA confirmed the penalty range for the offence is £250 to £1,500, with an entry point of £500, and that “owing to the nature of the incident” the stewards felt a penalty above the entry point was warranted.
Regarding the terminology used in the stewards’ report, to which Mullins took exception, the BHA stated that the “wilful disregard to racing public” wording is “specifically referred to within the guide to procedures and penalties in association with this rule”.
Despite the unique set of circumstances involved and the fact Mullins was frank in his declaration to the stewards about his preference to run in a more valuable race at Punchestown this week after his chance of winning the title had gone, BHA chief executive Nick Rust reiterated that the late withdrawal broke the rule that states a horse who is declared for a race must run.
'It's a clear rule breach'
As a guest on At The Races on Sunday morning, Rust was asked if he felt Mullins had “wilful disregard to the interest of British racing and its racegoers” and responded: “That’s what the rule effectively covers off. He was honest but we have to cover off a wider point here. The entries were made in good faith, the public was expecting to see the horse run, the race is framed in a particular way, we sell media and data rights around the world, and it’s important to have things lined up properly.
“Willie’s been honest but he has broken the rules. It’s a clear rule breach and we need to discourage in general these actions. He’s clearly got his reasons for doing so, of course we understand that, but we can’t make one rule for one and one for another.
“We have something called self-certification, which is a concession to trainers to allow them to withdraw horses under particular defined circumstances.
“Deciding to run on another day is not one of them because one of the issues you can have, which is clearly not the case this time, is trainers declaring for one race, seeing they don’t like the outcome of the race and deciding they will pull the horse out when it was ready to run, and run in another race two days later. That’s what we’re trying to prevent.”
THE BHA on Sunday came out in support of the Sandown stewards over the decision to fine trainer Willie Mullins £1,000 for the late withdrawal of Vroum Vroum Mag on Saturday.
The Cheltenham Festival-winning mare was withdrawn only nine minutes before she was due to contest the Listed Select Hurdle after any mathematical chance of Mullins winning his first British jump trainers’ title had gone.
The stewards’ report described the trainer as showing “a wilful disregard for the interests of racegoers and punters”, a comment Mullins disagreed with and branded “very harsh”.
Robin Mounsey, spokesman for the BHA, said on Sunday: “We support the decision of the stewards. In our view the specific set of circumstances which occurred were not satisfactory and the penalty was warranted.”
The BHA confirmed the penalty range for the offence is £250 to £1,500, with an entry point of £500, and that “owing to the nature of the incident” the stewards felt a penalty above the entry point was warranted.
Regarding the terminology used in the stewards’ report, to which Mullins took exception, the BHA stated that the “wilful disregard to racing public” wording is “specifically referred to within the guide to procedures and penalties in association with this rule”.
Despite the unique set of circumstances involved and the fact Mullins was frank in his declaration to the stewards about his preference to run in a more valuable race at Punchestown this week after his chance of winning the title had gone, BHA chief executive Nick Rust reiterated that the late withdrawal broke the rule that states a horse who is declared for a race must run.
'It's a clear rule breach'
As a guest on At The Races on Sunday morning, Rust was asked if he felt Mullins had “wilful disregard to the interest of British racing and its racegoers” and responded: “That’s what the rule effectively covers off. He was honest but we have to cover off a wider point here. The entries were made in good faith, the public was expecting to see the horse run, the race is framed in a particular way, we sell media and data rights around the world, and it’s important to have things lined up properly.
“Willie’s been honest but he has broken the rules. It’s a clear rule breach and we need to discourage in general these actions. He’s clearly got his reasons for doing so, of course we understand that, but we can’t make one rule for one and one for another.
“We have something called self-certification, which is a concession to trainers to allow them to withdraw horses under particular defined circumstances.
“Deciding to run on another day is not one of them because one of the issues you can have, which is clearly not the case this time, is trainers declaring for one race, seeing they don’t like the outcome of the race and deciding they will pull the horse out when it was ready to run, and run in another race two days later. That’s what we’re trying to prevent.”
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
You make the mistake of thinking that very rich people are any different to you. To them like you a dollar is a dollar.
The old saying "to them it's like spending 50p" is complete nonsense.
Good businessmen don't make decisions from the heart they use logic and make decisions on common sense.
The old phrase if it were me I would bla bla bla is easily said when it is not you.
If I were in a situation where a bad decision could cost me 63,000 pounds I'm sorry but I am not going to go that road and neither would any of you.
You can say you wouldn't do that all you want because it's meaningless the truth be known if you had ahorse and your trainer said do this and you will be 60k richer you are going to do it and pay the fine with a grin like a cheshire cat
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
What campaign would you have had in mind for him this season Suny?
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Maybe he gets a bigger buzz out of making a little out of his racing interests than he does his business who knows?
I think that sung thought that UDS should have stayed hurdling and run in the CH the year he was mopping up in France but this year he has had the usual 2 mile top horse campaign after Christmas - he has just run into a revitalised legend .
over fences the Tingle Creek and softer grund races
I think he was a much better hurdler than is a chaser and was not given the chance to fulfill potential ,
I would come back to hurdles
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
McCoy adamant UDS was the fastest thing he had ever seen over fences yet we have seens absolutely no real evidence of that.
It's amazing even the best can bee fooled into thinking horses are better than they are when beating nothing.
Special Tiara had no problem keeping tabs on him at any stage at Cheltenham and Sprinter Sacre even less so he really isn't that quick.
He's very good horse on soft ground but very beatable on good ground . That's probably why he was sent to France and not to Cheltenham.
I foolishly thought at the time Vautour was a Champion Hurdle horse more so than Faugheen but Mullins got it spot on I dare say he did with UDS too.
It's amazing even the best can bee fooled into thinking horses are better than they are when beating nothing.
Special Tiara had no problem keeping tabs on him at any stage at Cheltenham and Sprinter Sacre even less so he really isn't that quick.
He's very good horse on soft ground but very beatable on good ground . That's probably why he was sent to France and not to Cheltenham.
I foolishly thought at the time Vautour was a Champion Hurdle horse more so than Faugheen but Mullins got it spot on I dare say he did with UDS too.
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Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
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- 13,884
If Ricci was that hard nosed about it , he'd have told Willie to keep the horse for Punchestown in the first place and not sent her over.
For all their money they could do with some good PR advice after this and the Cheltenham Vautour debacle . Clearly , he was not aware of the rule and thought he could get away with it . It leaves a sour taste in the mouth and the impression of a fit of pique mixed with greed - not a good combination .
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Thats true. so we assume he was trying to help it didnt work out so he pulled her out...he deserves some credit for backing his trainer up knowing it could have cost him plenty...afford it ir not....So Willie has done the right thing by him as far as I can see....what is wrong with you people live a little give a little abd stop yer moaning and groaning over spilled milk...not you DG you are very open minded but some just want to stick the knife in without thinking things through
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Oh I think he was well aware of the rule and how much yhe fine would be.....PR is easy next time they'e on smile nicely tell evryone Douvan could be a Gold Cup horse...Faugheen is in great nick and Vautour will take on Sprinter Sacre next season and all is forgotten and you can all get back to arguing with me about how Vautour, after he hacks up over 2 miles, is going to kick Sprinters ass lol
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What the VVM escapade says to me is that WPM and Rich Ricci are back on good terms after the Vautour incident (allowing VVM to be used in that way) and WPM was certainly looking after his owner by withdrawing the horse. Definite sour taste in the mouth but relationship with Rich Ricci worth more than the fine and any animosity from internet.
My point is that I doubt he was aware of this specific rule with its wording and expected a £100 slap on the wrist .
I have some sympathy with suny's suggestion that a stiffer fine would have been appropriate and that the BHA should consider it and that there ought to be reciprocation of self- certification bans so a horse pulled out with no veterinary or other permitted reason ( e.g change of ground ) would not be allowed to run on Thursday.
Wrong . entirely wrong
But having said that Ricci is not a business man in any sense of the word. He's a corporate creep banker
Proper self made businessmen are not usually penny pinchers( although there are some public exceptions) .Nearly all are big picture They are, contrary to the perspective of many, pretty blasé about cash. Can be surprisingly unmaterialistic too
Why is this? Pretty bloody logical. You would not take the risks they do if you sat around worrying about every penny. Most have to face down HMRC and insolvency at some stage or other and it takes some nerve to do that.
Most i deal with would almost certainly earn more creeping up the corporate ladder.
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Well if that was so then maybe he is what is suggested.
They fork out millions for talent.
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
I read somewhere that conversation about RR's work is off the agenda among his friends.
I couldn't care less what he did to make his millions to be honest but dress it up anyway you like it was his business.
I know when I listen to the guy he comes across as knowledgeable about his horses, passionate and an ideal owner.
No airs and graces about the guys at all and he can laugh at himself which speaks volumes about why his friends speak highly of him.
I have said what I have said re the withdrawal and stick by it.
.
I couldn't care less what he did to make his millions to be honest but dress it up anyway you like it was his business.
I know when I listen to the guy he comes across as knowledgeable about his horses, passionate and an ideal owner.
No airs and graces about the guys at all and he can laugh at himself which speaks volumes about why his friends speak highly of him.
I have said what I have said re the withdrawal and stick by it.
.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
I just read the article written 3 days ago about this and Mullins came straight out with the same reason I worked out for myself. On my mothers grave I never knew he had.
That just tells me it is common sense they did what they did ...............and it's Normannaemates referring to Norman Bates not Billynomates you Psycho :lol:
That just tells me it is common sense they did what they did ...............and it's Normannaemates referring to Norman Bates not Billynomates you Psycho :lol:
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Ditto, a Champions ride.
Cooper was far too tentative on the runner up, both early on and at the last when he should surely have thrown his horse at it.
edgt
Senior Jockey
VL a horse that can make a stupid mistake is not one for throwing at a fence imo.