Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced

What a horse. Truly exceptional. He's so laid back he is almost the equine Usain Bolt. I hope this horse gets the coverage he deserves.

Given that there are 4 1/2 week between the Arc and the Classic, I hope he takes in both of those. I also hope he wins as well!! That would equal the Rock's record of 7 in a row as well.
 
To my completely novice eye, I've not yet seen him stretch; he just seems to half run, half canter.

Would someone who's better acquainted with running styles like to comment?
 
Just popping in to say I'm so pleased for the Irish that you got to see your wonder horse in the flesh, he just gets better and better doesn't he?

I've had the great good fortune to see him at very close quarters twice now - Nmkt and Sandown. He has huge presence, I think he must be one of the most 'intelligent' horses I've ever seen, he knows what to do with minimum help from Mick (that's not a criticism btw, I rate MK very highly indeed). There was just the slightest fear at 3fs out they might get boxed in by all the Ballydoyle runners, but to their credit those contenders didn't try any funny business which might have been tempting. It would have been a small tragedy to see such a superstar get beat by tactics.

STS's greatest attribute is imo his exceptional temperament: he seems always so contained within himself, whilst taking in every single thing around him. In my experience you rarely see that in great horses - they are either 'shut off' inside themselves, blocking out - or they are quite hyper and re-active. There is something quite different about thge way this horse conducts himself: the very opposite of eg New Approach

I'm amazed anyone could have doubted he would win today, other than by tactics; and MK is too wily for that anyway. STS really is a cut above, and imo we have not seen him stretched yet - certainly no-where near his limit. Superbly handled in every respect as well, as others have remarked.

A great day for racing, if horribly marred by the dreadful events in Malton with it's senseless waste of at least one brilliant young talent
 
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I think it was probably the most remarkable days flat racing - possibly racing full stop - I was ever around to witness. The horse was cheered leaving the stalls and the moment he and F&G locked horns off the turn the roars were deafening....while the cheers he got in the winners enclosure has the hairs standing on the back of my neck.
 
On a smaller scale there was that sense at York - of being there to witness a very special horse. It is pretty clear that had Kinane allowed him to continue his run rather than taking that pull he would have beaten MCM much more comfortably at York .

MCM really should have been in the Moulin - looks like it would have been a penalty kick
 
Galileo said:
I think it was probably the most remarkable days flat racing - possibly racing full stop - I was ever around to witness. The horse was cheered leaving the stalls and the moment he and F&G locked horns off the turn the roars were deafening....while the cheers he got in the winners enclosure has the hairs standing on the back of my neck.
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I envy you being there. I won't miss Longchamp though.
 
I agree, I think its about 75% cheaper to get to Longchamp and in the gates than Leopardstown, I was put off by £375 for 2 adults to dublin return its not even long enough to get your arse warm on the seat.

I hope you enjoyed every minute Galileo I am very jealous lol
 
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I was sorry atr didn't or couldn't show the 'roar'... It looked like Inca's day to the max 10!
I really envy anyone who was there, and I knew most of the 'January gang' would be - was so glad I knew the layout so to speak, whilst watching his progress back in. Glad you could have that, Gal and the rest of you - I have an idea what it must have meant to some on here!
 
It would seem that congratulations are due, in that STS appears to be everything followers of the Flat would hope of a genuine champion thoroughbred (albeit his season isn't finished yet).

For obvious reasons, the impact of this horse is lost on me more than somewhat, so I ask the following questions in a spirit of seeking enlightenment, and trust that responses will be delivered in the same way:

1. Does STS overcome the (apparent) hyperbole prevalent on various racing forums? I have seen several posts suggest that STS is the best Flat thoroughbred of the last 20-30 years. Is that really the case?

2. If the answer to 1. is 'Yes', who would be the most able contemporaries (of the last 30 years) against which he is measured? So far, Dancing Brave has been mentioned as the most credible superior, but what of animals like Peintre Celebre, Montjeu and others (you'll forgive me for not knowing too many more)?

3. Would defeat in his next outing - presuming conditions are not entirely unfavourable - have a negative impact upon his record/legacy? Or has he already proven beyond doubt that he ranks highly amongst all Classic generations of the last 30 years?

4. Even a Jumps man like myself can see that STS is a thoroughly genuine animal. That being the case, is there any chance that he could be kept in training and raced as a 4yo? Or is his stud value simply too high at present?

5. It's not unnatural for 'Champion' performances to be over-rated. Do our Flat brethern have faith that today's performance is rock-solid, and that the placed horses have ran up to their ratings (as I'm generally cautious in my own rating of, at face value, highly impressive Jumps performances)?

Again, these are serious questions seeking serious answers. I've tried to remain wholly disinterested in this animal, but the contributions of many respected Th'ers has piqued my interest (until C&H drops through the letterbox at least).

C'mon. Convince me.
 
Grasshopper

Regarding point 1, I've only been following racing long enough to comment on whether Sea The Stars in the best horse we have seen over the last 10 years. Of that I have no doubt, Montjeu, Dubai Millennium, Falbrav and Manduro would probably complete the quintet. I guess my answer to question one also answers question 2.

Regarding point 3 - Not for me, his achievements already mark him down as the horse of the year without a doubt. It's hard to see the level of form he has reached being surpassed by the Arc winner. If a horse is over the top by the autumn, I'm not one to hold it against them. In your world, is the Gold Cup winner any less of a Gold Cup winner if he gets turned over on fast ground at Punchestown?

There would be no reason physically why Sea The Stars couldn't be kept in training, however commercial factors will almost certainly dictate that he'll be retired at the end of the year.

Regarding his performances, he is different from Hawk Wing who had just the one outstanding rating. This run and his Eclipse run both look like tip top efforts, the Sandown form backed up both by the clock and the subsequent performances of the rivals he beat.
 
"Or has he already proven beyond doubt that he ranks highly amongst all Classic generations of the last 30 years?"

Yes.

If not longer than 30. And that was secure even before today! What he has achieved is unique, certainly in recent years, but it's also the manner of his doing it which is so impressive.

Maybe Sea Bird III was a better horse - but even Sir P O'S is mightily impressed, and he tends to regard the horses of his youth and prime as superior.

I don't think there is any chance he will race on at 4 - what could he possibly have to prove? His owners are very sporting, but I'd be amazed if they were THAT sporting!
 
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this is the type of horse that could become a legend ...if allowed to race on at 4yo

when you look at Brigadier Gerard..then curtail his career at the end of his 3yo days..he would not have achieved any more than STS..in fact a lot less

to me when the career finishes at 3 we only see a small part of the story..which is a shame
 
Many thanks to DJ and Headstrong and my old clock-watching mucker EC

I'm expecting similar responses, but please keep them coming.

PS. In response to DJ's question "In your world, is the Gold Cup winner any less of a Gold Cup winner if he gets turned over on fast ground at Punchestown?"

No, he isn't. I guess the reason I asked this question in the first place, is because a given Gold Cup performance (on an objective assessment) may be several lbs shy of a previous performance, but is rated higher merely by dint of the fact it came in a Gold Cup.
 
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5. It's not unnatural for 'Champion' performances to be over-rated. Do our Flat brethern have faith that today's performance is rock-solid, and that the placed horses have ran up to their ratings (as I'm generally cautious in my own rating of, at face value, highly impressive Jumps performances)?

one thing we have this year are the very consistent markers of AOB's horses who have run remarkably to form to measure STS against..the 3yo form this year looks rock solid

todays performance was simply breathtaking..he was worth at least another 3 or 4 lengths..maybe more
 
Magic day....magic horse ..magic scenes, a privlege to be there and witness the atmosphere and be in the presence of such a great horse.

To see old heads Like Oxx and Kinane who have known great horses get emotional said it all.
Kinane said and I think this is pretty accurate.' I've never been on a horse before that can do what Sts can do'.
 
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And Rachel Alexandra just did it again! - if only we could ever see them go head to head...

Very different types of course - she is one tough broad
 
Ardross said:
Just read the Guardian's review -- Sea The Stars 5 Coolmore 0
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Coolmore have taken him on at every opportunity, unlike most other operations. Without Coolmore, we could only speculate at how good Sea the Stars is. We now have an idea how good he is. In another year, Coolmore would have had a 1-2-3 in the derby. As John Oxx has said, he's a once in a generation horse. We should be congratulating Coolmore on never shirking the fight, not knocking them on losing each fight. Not one british trainer was willing to take him on in the Judmonte...
 
Grasshopper said:
1. Does STS overcome the (apparent) hyperbole prevalent on various racing forums? I have seen several posts suggest that STS is the best Flat thoroughbred of the last 20-30 years. Is that really the case?

2. If the answer to 1. is 'Yes', who would be the most able contemporaries (of the last 30 years) against which he is measured? So far, Dancing Brave has been mentioned as the most credible superior, but what of animals like Peintre Celebre, Montjeu and others (you'll forgive me for not knowing too many more)?

3. Would defeat in his next outing - presuming conditions are not entirely unfavourable - have a negative impact upon his record/legacy? Or has he already proven beyond doubt that he ranks highly amongst all Classic generations of the last 30 years?
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1. I actually think it's harder these days for a true champion to emerge because of these forums. You always have people doubting the form and asking "what did he/she beat"? Zarkava was an outstanding filly in 2008 and would have given STS a right good race this year but she was unlucky enough to never be truly tested.

2.
Dubai Millenium
Generous
Peintre Celebre
Daylami
Sakhee
Montjeu

Of those, I reckon Generous would have beaten STS over a mile and a half and that's about it. DM was rated 140 by Timeform and on today's evidence I think the Oxx horse would have worn him down on the line.

3. No. Defeat never affected Nijinsky and Brigadier Gerard's legacy.
 
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