walsworth
Journeyman
Just how do the forums influence this?
Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced
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STS impressive again today,
very diffiult to win 5gr1s in a row, has been beating very good horses in very good time, looks easy to ride and impossible to find a horse so settled.
Top class champion
Winning the Arc on sft ground or beating Goldikova in a 8f race are the only things to make him even greater.
very diffiult to win 5gr1s in a row, has been beating very good horses in very good time, looks easy to ride and impossible to find a horse so settled.
Top class champion
Winning the Arc on sft ground or beating Goldikova in a 8f race are the only things to make him even greater.
Coolmore are the only operation with horses able to give him a race and he is running in all the races they want to win . I don't quite see why that is so laudable . What has been annoying is the endless stream of excuses - RVW's feet. F & G being unsuited by the pace , MCM not quite staying ....
No STS is just much better than them .
No STS is just much better than them .
It would help though if you read more than just their sound bites and O'Briens actual opinion of the horse.
When O'Brien mentioned the pace and MCM stamina recently on the ATR interview - he clearly stated it left questions in his mind but that he was not saying the result would have been different. He described him as a great horse and the like that he has not seen before for a long time - what more do you want?
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Sheikh
At the Start
Spot on there........
Sea The Stars is right up there with Montjeu (of the horses I have seen live) for me, but gets the edge in terms of versatility. It would be a dream match up though - with both coming there hard held in the final furlong.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
It's a recognition thing. There are a lot of nostalgia merchants out there.
imagine
At the Start
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I do have to point out that there would have been a British runner had Tartan Bearer bot been injured. Outcome wouldn't have been any different IMO but there was one trainer willing to give it a go.
A very fair point.
He does look almost up to the likes of Montjeu and Nijinsky I'd agree, which is almost as high as you can get. He's still short of the all-time highweights led by Sea-Bird though.
Any views on the ground yesterday? The outside track (where the Group 1s were ran) looked a good deal quicker to my eye than the other track....certainly was not soft or near it. Goes to show what a disaster it would have been if Oxx did not declare to run on the Thursday.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Almost? He's a good two or three pounds better than Montjeu, who it has to be said is a tad overrated on here. Generous, Daylami and Sakhee were all better imo.
Montjeu would have slammed the likes of Generous, Daylami and Sakhee...not in the same league as the French horse. I would give STS the edge over Montjeu over 10 furlongs but fancy Montjeu to beat STS over 12.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Slammed? Not in the same league? Generous EARNED a Timeform rating of 139. I know he's a bit before your time but he put Suave Dancer in his place in the Irish Derby and SD was on a similar level to Montjeu.
Wouldn't have thought he'd be rated higher than Montjeu yet... Montjeu is something like 137/138. Don't know what the provisional rating for STS is yet, but I reckon it shoulf be 135+, which puts him almost with the likes of Montjeu and Nijinsky but still below the 140+ performers.
Montjeu was a bit special. I'd have to be on the side of Galileo here.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
This is starting to get away from form and towards "character". In his column yesterday David Ashforth hoped STS would win and would at last show a bit of character, something he apparantly was lacking. What a load of balls.
Montjeu only just over-hauled El Condor-Pasa in his Arc. I don't see how that translates into him slamming Daylami and Sakhee.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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You're right it is getting away from it a bit. But STS will be rated in the context of those that have gone before him, as he is highest rated in the world of his contemporaries.
Montjeu had a Timeform rating of 137 (RPR 136)and a International rating of 138. Other horses have been rated around that, but the ease in which he won his races was breathtaking. I've rarely seen an easier winner of a Group 1 when he took the KG (posting 133, with easily 10lb in hand).
I don't think we are talking this sort of standard (albeit extremely high) for STS yet.
El Condor Pasa by the way was a horse rated as highly as STS.
Montjeu had a Timeform rating of 137 (RPR 136)and a International rating of 138. Other horses have been rated around that, but the ease in which he won his races was breathtaking. I've rarely seen an easier winner of a Group 1 when he took the KG (posting 133, with easily 10lb in hand).
I don't think we are talking this sort of standard (albeit extremely high) for STS yet.
El Condor Pasa by the way was a horse rated as highly as STS.
STS is the best I've seen since Dalakhani
Dalakhani was rated 134 and an extremly good 3-y-o. I'd say STS has the edge on him now.
If Montjeu wasn't the best I ever saw he was damn near close.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE30...3F4DBBEE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12
His performance was remarkable. Instead of watching the first and second....watch the positions of the first and third in the final couple of furlongs. The Japanese horse is not stopping, he continues to pull right away from the rest of the field but Montjeu was just too good for him despite having a handy advantage of three lengths or so.
His performance was remarkable. Instead of watching the first and second....watch the positions of the first and third in the final couple of furlongs. The Japanese horse is not stopping, he continues to pull right away from the rest of the field but Montjeu was just too good for him despite having a handy advantage of three lengths or so.
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