It's a timefigure, Steve, not the form rating. But the two scales are the same.
Apologies I misread Timefigure as Timeform (i.e. the rating).
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It's a timefigure, Steve, not the form rating. But the two scales are the same.
"...In the Derby Troy had everything to suit him. The cracking pace had Willie Carson scrubbing him along before half-way, but it also put the pressure on Northern Baby, Ela-Mana-Mou and Lyphard's Wish and rendered these less stout opponents more vulnerable to Troy's finish... "
I had a nice bet on Troy in the Derby that year. Brilliant winner and I've always thought he was generally under-rated.
"I had a nice bet on Troy in the Derby that year."
Now that's what I call...................................... after-timing!
How do you rate him [Troy] compared with STS? They'd be hard to split I'd say.
My ratings were in their infancy in those days but I always felt his form was of the highest class. I can't find any books for the era so maybe I was working to the Update weekly pullouts which will have long since been binned. 137 is always the figure that springs to mind when I think of Troy but I can't remember if that's my own.
(Either that or it was the bus home that evening...)
Great reading Desert Orchid.
My question is that if it is generally accepted that Fame And Glory is better on an easier surface and over 12furlongs what sort of rating do you think he can hit if he can reach such heights over 10 furlongs on a drying surface?
not much more IF he just needs a very strong pace as Steve suggests - he got that and still got beaten
anyone that thinks he is better by some way though can really make a killing in the Arc surely?
The way I see it, when they hit that level of ability they have to have tons of speed. It's probably the case that 10f doesn't inconvenience him much, if at all, in the same way that STS could probably drop back to a mile without any inconvenience.
On the other hand, F&G has so much stamina that he is very likely to be able to sustain his speed for longer and is therefore likely to at least run to the same level at 12f. Over longer distances, fewer horses will have the same combination of speed and stamina therefore he'll beat them by further and look more impressive in doing so. For example, Yeats is a 126-ish horse at 12f so would be vulnerable at that trip to a 'proper' 12f horse but he can also hit that same level at 20f when nothing else can.
F&G will be very hard to beat in the Arc.
The way I see it, when they hit that level of ability they have to have tons of speed. It's probably the case that 10f doesn't inconvenience him much, if at all, in the same way that STS could probably drop back to a mile without any inconvenience.
On the other hand, F&G has so much stamina that he is very likely to be able to sustain his speed for longer and is therefore likely to at least run to the same level at 12f. Over longer distances, fewer horses will have the same combination of speed and stamina therefore he'll beat them by further and look more impressive in doing so. For example, Yeats is a 126-ish horse at 12f so would be vulnerable at that trip to a 'proper' 12f horse but he can also hit that same level at 20f when nothing else can.
F&G will be very hard to beat in the Arc.
Do you expect him to reverse the form with STS ? . I don't I think in fact that contrary to my expectation the fact he was able to beat MCM easily into third means I underestimated how much speed F & G has and I suggest he is in fact as good a horse over 10f as he is over 12f - the problem is it is nowhere near as much as STS.
Do you expect him to reverse the form with STS ? . I don't I think in fact that contrary to my expectation the fact he was able to beat MCM easily into third means I underestimated how much speed F & G has and I suggest he is in fact as good a horse over 10f as he is over 12f - the problem is it is nowhere near as much as STS.
But what if, as you said before the race - and indeed most others, that he looks a horse that is much better suited to 12 furlongs and would get the Leger trip comfortably?
For my mind (and I said it before the result of the Irish Champion) Fame And Glory (as his breeding suggests) will prove to be a much better horse over 12 furlongs and for that reason I find it hard to believe he ran to the mid thirties figure being quoted on here.