Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced

I was very impressed by F & G just have always been much more impressed by Sea The Stars.

There can only be two reasons for thinking he can win the Arc ( i) it rains and STS does not turn up - if so I wouldn't want to be against him (ii) STS doesn't stay 12f and he will outstay him - that I think is wishful thinking .
 
Galileo said:
It is fair to say you have not been impressed with Fame And Glory from Day 1 - seemingly taking Mourayan as the horse to follow out of the early Leopardstown Derby Trials.
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no - he has never captured my imagination..I just think he needs further than even 12f to show his best..hence when he had a collapsable pace over a stiff 12f track he showed what he can do

I am not a big fan of keeping horses away from longer distances just to suit breeding fads either..as you have probably guessed:lol:

yes I could see him placing in an Arc..but I could just as easily see him making a no show in it

I think the Arc can be a race that suits a handy horse with tactical speed..I don't see F&G in that light..I still remember he won over 10 as a 2yo..which as I said earlier in the season would point me to a stayer as a 3yo...he was the classic leger horse for sure
 
EC1 said:
they should have run F&G in the leger..won it easily..then retired him

he was perfect for that race..whereas he won't get placed in the Arc...a real shame
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I would have run him in the Leger had I owned him. Nevertheless the Arc is also his sort of race and he must nearly win it whether STS runs or not. With the chances of easy going it wouldn't be the greatest surprise if STS did not take part. Given some give Fame has probably got Conduit, Cavalryman and Sariska to beat... I reckon he ought to be able to manage that.
 
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Gareth Flynn said:
Which is it?
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The point I was making was that anything is possible..but imo he won't place..but its all academic really..because if I am right it won't ever be mentioned again..whereas if I'm wrong ...such as Gal will be harping on about it as he does with Mourayan for another 12 months:D..nevermind the times I've been right..you only get remembered for being wrong on forums..its the way human nature works

all this chat is just hobbying really isn't it?..and passing the time talking about a subject we all like to think we know more about than anyone else :p
 
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If you're right, it's the equivalent of landing a ~4/6 shot (at current Betfair place lay prices). So no, I don't expect it'll be remembered as one of the great coups.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
If you're right, it's the equivalent of landing a ~4/6 shot (at current Betfair place lay prices). So no, I don't expect it'll be remembered as one of the great coups.
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Don't think I mentioned it was a coup of any sort..all I said is a horse will be struggling to place in the Arc

because its one of AOB's and a board favourite..it goes down like a lead balloon and creates sarcy responses like your one above...which I have come to expect when going against the trend..its how things are really isn't it?

It also makes no difference what prices of horses are..you are only remembered for the losers on forums..again..particularly if its an Irish one I go against on this board..which is odd..seeing as I seem to be one of the least prejudiced posters on here re trainers horses etc

the horse is a stayer..10f at 2 tells you something..and now his best victory came in a collapsed pace on a stiff course over 12f ...lots of clues to the horse's strength in that Derby run imo

just my view..
 
EC1 said:
Don't think I mentioned it was a coup of any sort..all I said is a horse will be struggling to place in the Arc
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Actually, you've now said

a) he won't get placed
b) you can see him placing
c) he will be struggling to place
d) anything is possible

.which I have come to expect when going against the trend..its how things are really isn't it?
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Yeah, with these 4/6 place lays you're a true maverick.
 
Euronymous said:
I don't agree with that. If someone gets a nice priced winner it's stays in the memory.
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EC1's tipping up of Madison du Berlais against Denman and Exotic Dancer springs to mind, as does Warbler and co on Rail Link and (obligatory mention) SteveM on Shamardal. Oh, and Relkeel's ~100/1 winner on the Order of Merit, and Shadow Leader on the Sports Personality. To name just a small few.
 
you are the board rottweiller Gareth..you never let go :rolleyes:

now look :D..I'm trying to say that nothing is impossible..every outcome has a chance of happening of course..but 6/4 to place isn't good value..particularly to me who thinks he has a lot less chance than that of placing
 
No offers on STS or Youmzain as i've got the latter at 13/2 for a place myself.

I'll give you 2/1 on Stacelita and 7/4 Conduit.
 
When you look back in the form book when he's retired and see why you tried to oppose him I bet you'll laugh at yourself and hopefully learn from it.
 
I look at the form book now and see a horse that has won a very weak irish derby and been swept aside by admittedly a genuinely great horse but has not necessarily finished in front of much else that was running to their best or had optimum conditions and were top class, on those days

I wouldnt take 6/4 a place. But i never bet places anyway. Depends if F&G takes the battle to STS and if he doies and is burnt off , can envisage some suprising horses running on at the end.

Its a bloody scrum anyway at the arc and like to have more experienced runners on my side.
 
There's another question of how far FAG is still improving - which is, has AOB left something to work on for these late season races, or have the Derbys etc taken a lot out of him already? I'd say he's had tougher races than STS and that counts in terms of the Arc (imo).

I don't find any of the Ballydoyle horses that impressive this season - I would rate them all below New Approach for example, difficult though it is to compare horses from different seasons. And I rated that one above HenryTN last year. I would rate STS above any of those - his winning margins don't begin to tell the story, so speed ratings seem meaningless to me in that context. I'm mystified why some people still seem to want to downgrade the horse - and EC1 is right, it does seem to be the 'usual suspects' to some extent, who always talk up Ballydoyle horses.

I also think it's well worth taking on board what Kinane and Oxx have said about this horse, and his intrinsic superiority. They both remember the great horses of the past 35 years and saw them in action (as have other observers eg Sir PO'S), and rate STS superior.
 
"EC1's tipping up of Madison du Berlais against Denman and Exotic Dancer springs to mind, as does Warbler and co on Rail Link and (obligatory mention) SteveM on Shamardal. Oh, and Relkeel's ~100/1 winner on the Order of Merit, and Shadow Leader on the Sports Personality. To name just a small few."

...............and, of course, we mustn't forget Shadow Leader, the Triumph and Made In Japan @ 100/1 (when first mentioned). Have I remembered correctly?
 
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