Sectional Timing

Sectionals often aid judgement of pace,(imo, vital in reading a horse's form) and it's apalling how many pro pundits give it scant regard.
 
Having said that, UK sectionals mislead because they are timed on the leading horse, whereas more mature jurisdictions give individual furlong-by-furlong figures for each horse, which is why I've said all along "there's no such thing as an even pace".

Check SR's own figures on ATR using the 'sectional tools' function - any track,any distance - and, unless the winner made all,you're unlikely to find any horse that ran even splits.
Horses do change pace, even in sprints, but you're unlikely to see that admitted in any discussion on the subject.
 
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reet hard said:
Having said that, UK sectionals mislead because they are timed on the leading horse, whereas more mature jurisdictions give individual furlong-by-furlong figures for each horse, which is why I've said all along "there's no such thing as an even pace".

Check SR's own figures on ATR using the 'sectional tools' function - any track,any distance - and, unless the winner made all,you're unlikely to find any horse that ran even splits.
Horses do change pace, even in sprints, but you're unlikely to see that admitted in any discussion on the subject.
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ATR, RP and FG show the sectionals for each horse. For TV there isn't really a way to do it for anything other than the leading horse that wouldn't be extremely obtrusive on the screen or pretty confusing.

Also, once up to speed running each furlong at the same speed (imagining a completely flat and straight track) isn't the most efficient way to run a race, whether the competitor is equine or human. The debate (which is never really debated) is how much you want the horse to slow down in the final furlong (at present I haven't seen anything more in depth than vs par, which assumes that on average jockeys get the pacing right).

In case anyone was wondering; if a horse isn't slowing down at the line then that implies that they could have expended more energy earlier in the race. But more importantly, slowing down only 0.2s isn't near perfect efficiency. As a very approximate example the horse in question could have travelled 0.2s per furlong quicker for 6F with an expectation that this would only cost 0.6s in the final furlong, hence giving a quicker overall time. Of course perfect speed efficiency needs to be balanced with distance travelled (potentially having to come wide round the final bend if in the rear) and getting a clear run in time.
 
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ep1987 said:
ATR, RP and FG show the sectionals for each horse. For TV there isn't really a way to do it for anything other than the leading horse that wouldn't be extremely obtrusive on the screen or pretty confusing.

Also, once up to speed running each furlong at the same speed (imagining a completely flat and straight track) isn't the most efficient way to run a race, whether the competitor is equine or human. The debate (which is never really debated) is how much you want the horse to slow down in the final furlong (at present I haven't seen anything more in depth than vs par, which assumes that on average jockeys get the pacing right).

In case anyone was wondering; if a horse isn't slowing down at the line then that implies that they could have expended more energy earlier in the race. But more importantly, slowing down only 0.2s isn't near perfect efficiency. As a very approximate example the horse in question could have travelled 0.2s per furlong quicker for 6F with an expectation that this would only cost 0.6s in the final furlong, hence giving a quicker overall time. Of course perfect speed efficiency needs to be balanced with distance travelled (potentially having to come wide round the final bend if in the rear) and getting a clear run in time.
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Yes, I reckon in the last 30 years or so what we've seen in UK racing is greater emphasis on pace through a race. Perhaps my memory plays tricks on me but I reckon back in the late 1960s-early '70s, horses were generally ridden for late speed, which was still the case in France until relatively recently.

I think it's generally accepted now that the real pace in races is injected about 3f out and the final furlong is just about who slows down the least.
 
ep1987 said:
ATR, RP and FG show the sectionals for each horse. For TV there isn't really a way to do it for anything other than the leading horse that wouldn't be extremely obtrusive on the screen or pretty confusing.

Also, once up to speed running each furlong at the same speed (imagining a completely flat and straight track) isn't the most efficient way to run a race, whether the competitor is equine or human. The debate (which is never really debated) is how much you want the horse to slow down in the final furlong (at present I haven't seen anything more in depth than vs par, which assumes that on average jockeys get the pacing right).

In case anyone was wondering; if a horse isn't slowing down at the line then that implies that they could have expended more energy earlier in the race. But more importantly, slowing down only 0.2s isn't near perfect efficiency. As a very approximate example the horse in question could have travelled 0.2s per furlong quicker for 6F with an expectation that this would only cost 0.6s in the final furlong, hence giving a quicker overall time. Of course perfect speed efficiency needs to be balanced with distance travelled (potentially having to come wide round the final bend if in the rear) and getting a clear run in time.
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https://www.attheraces.com/racecard/Ripon/26-May-2022/1450
Epi,
Sectional tools from Ripon's feature last Wednesday (the latest availble at the time of typing).
The yellow line represents ATR's optimum time for that c/d (The sectional times are in 1/3rd trenches). It's clear from their own pace mapping that none of the field ran an 'even time' (against ATR data). Unsurprisingy the winner was probably closest, but she won with a burst of speed around If down, before slowing at the end.
Pleased you've taken an interest, but I must confess, I can't see a furlong-by-furlong figure anywhere on the site.
 
reet hard said:
https://www.attheraces.com/racecard/Ripon/26-May-2022/1450
Epi,
Sectional tools from Ripon's feature last Wednesday (the latest availble at the time of typing).
The yellow line represents ATR's optimum time for that c/d (The sectional times are in 1/3rd trenches). It's clear from their own pace mapping that none of the field ran an 'even time' (against ATR data). Unsurprisingy the winner was probably closest, but she won with a burst of speed around If down, before slowing at the end.
Pleased you've taken an interest, but I must confess, I can't see a furlong-by-furlong figure anywhere on the site.
Click to expand...

ATR data is good, but obviously doesn't cover most of the better meetings and has two potential problems; you're placing trust in their methodology for the per furlong pars/optimums and on a macro scale it assumes that pacing is currently close to optimum in the aggregate.

With regard to furlong by furlong, the times are listed and colour coded for each horse on the sectional times tab and you can hover over the energy distribution graphs on the sectional tools tab.
 
Wouldn't say I ever trusted ATR pars or the methodology they use. They're ok as a guide, but I've never swallowed this 'even pace' tripe, and mainly use the mph figures as a guide to the pace the race was run at. Avaible for most tracks,too.
 
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From RP:
Irish racing will belatedly move one step closer to rolling out sectional timing technology on Wednesday evening as the Curragh takes part in trials using speed sensing equipment.

The course's chief executive Brian Kavanagh recognises the importance of the service on the international stage and was keen for the technology to be implemented at the home of the Irish Classics as soon as possible after a five-year delay.

The Racing Post understands that about half of Irish tracks will take part in sectional timing trials over the coming months through the Racecourse Media Group's timing partner Coursetrack.
 
One pretty important thing; the times have to be correct.

I have some concerns about the RTV sectionals based on the results from this race at Epsom:

https://www.racingtv.com/results/uk/393361-epsom-downs/03-Jun-2022/1435

I really doubt that the entire field slowed down so markedly from F3 to F2 (this didn't happen in any other race) and then the 2nd and 3rd (who was checked just inside the final furlong) supposedly put in a quicker last furlong (there's a hill that kicks in about 100 yds from the finish).

All the other races check out so not sure what to think.
 
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